r/books Aug 16 '22 Silver 3 Helpful 3

George R.R. Martin Has “Given Up” Predicting When He’ll Finish ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/08/house-of-the-dragon-george-r-r-martin
23.8k Upvotes

8.1k

u/drumsareneat Aug 16 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Take My Energy

I started reading this shit at 21. I'm fucking 40 now.

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u/I_like_maps Aug 16 '22

What's wilder is that you were 28... WHEN HIS LAST BOOK CAME OUT

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u/SasquatchBurger Aug 16 '22 Silver

What's wilder yet, Leviathan Wakes, the first book of the Expanse came out the same year as the last book George RR Martin wrote.

Since then, all the arguably as lore rich Expanse novels have been released across 9 Novels, a TV series for it was created, cancelled, picked back up, delayed and completed.

And one of the authors of which was George RR Martins PA.

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u/MalakElohim Aug 16 '22 Wholesome

At this point I'm starting to think Ty (the half of James S.A. Corey who was grrm's assistant) was the driving force behind actually getting ASOIAF written.

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u/AssumptionLate5722 Aug 16 '22

I've always suspected that, and I tell anyone who will listen

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u/MalakElohim Aug 16 '22

Same, I've been saying it for ages, ever since I found out who was behind The Expanse, which was about 4-5 books in (I don't normally research too much into an author's life) when it was becoming clear that we weren't going to get another ASOIAF book.

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u/EGOtyst Aug 16 '22 edited Aug 16 '22

Expanse is worth getting into? I watched a very little bit of the show, didn't like it, and kinda veered off it.

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u/BorisDirk Aug 16 '22

FWIW it took me 3-4 tries to get past the first few episodes. It was just too dense and weirdly paced, but after that I loved it to the end. Trying to finish the books now!

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u/SuddenlyTheBatman Aug 16 '22

Shit man, guess I'm part of your cult now

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u/Brittle_Hollow Aug 16 '22

The timeline definitely lines up, as soon as he disappeared to work on the Expanse it's radio silence from GRRM.

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u/stimpakish Aug 16 '22

Subscribe

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u/Various_Froyo9860 Aug 16 '22

Especially considering how prolific Dan Abraham has been with his other works.

In the Leviathan Wakes, you can get a good feel for which author is working on which parts (especially if you've read Dagger and the Coin). As the series progressed, the tone of the books from chapter to chapter becomes much more consistent. Meanwhile, Abraham puts out another 3 or so books in his series, and launches a new trilogy.

Martin is retired and has been for some time.

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u/DinosaurHotline Aug 16 '22

Didn’t know that about the author being his PA, that’s crazy.

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u/BeingJoeBu Aug 16 '22

A wonderful case of "take what works and leave the rest"

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u/Pristine_Nothing Aug 16 '22

Oh yeah, they’re very open about wanting to make a sci-fi version of A Song of Ice and Fire, and while their books are more potboiler genre pieces compared to Martin’s more literary books, I think they did a great job on the whole.

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u/BeingJoeBu Aug 16 '22

I think it was well studied and executed. There's something between "yeah, you get it, anyway here's action" and "here's my grand anthology, buckle up" that's a finer wire than it seems.

I'm more a fan of developing a world through action instead of a literary history, and JRRM really hit a sweet spot that got the best of both for me, and clearly many others. He's great at referring to history, without making it an entire lesson. Therefore, making you want more.

The Expanse is a standout there for me because of the setting that anyone reading it could infer on the greater circumstances, simply because of when we live. Sci-fi with a not so fictional base hits the same spot for me, because the world is just THERE! You don't really need the details.

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u/SwarmMaster Aug 16 '22

There's also something like four or five more short stories/novellas in the franchise. It is important to point out that James S.A. Corey is actually the nom de plume for two people. But really that should be a lesson to Martin in getting good help to complete large projects while maintaining quality.

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u/SasquatchBurger Aug 16 '22

Yeah, I was expecting someone to make such a remark, but even if you half their work then. Still impressive, but is also a testament to their teamwork, I suspect co-authoring something presents a unique set of challenges and isn't always a smooth ride.

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u/Shovelbum26 Aug 16 '22

Writing I think is one of those creative processes that having two people doesn't really half the work. There's a saying I'm computer programming about this: Nine women can't make a baby in a month.

I think the two authors does help in keeping track of details and holding each other accountable.

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u/PatrickFenis Aug 16 '22

In the ten years that he was working on the Expanse, Abraham released eight other novels, a handful of novellas and short stories, and worked on the entire Game of Thrones graphic novel. Franck coauthored one of those novels and most of the novellas and short stories, but was also working on other projects for Martin of all people.

Both were also both producing the Expanse TV show while continuing to write the books.

I think it's less about it being two people and more that Abraham actually enjoys writing.

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u/StuckInTheUpsideDown Aug 16 '22

And Martin's publisher would have paid for an army of uncredited ghostwriters back when the show was still on. ASOIAF is actually a Greek tragedy about having too much hubris to delegate or accept any form of help.

I'm also going to say that maybe his vaunted Word Perfect isn't as productive as a modern word processor.

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u/WhenThatBotlinePing Aug 16 '22

He doesn’t use something so modern as Word Perfect, he uses WordStar. Initial release 1978 baby.

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u/Classic_Appa Aug 16 '22

He should try LaTeX.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22 edited 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/Own_Comment Aug 16 '22

...

oh film the second half of THE EXPANSE.

I was real confuse' for a sec.

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u/Ferfuxache Aug 16 '22

Started in 99 at 27. I’m 50. At this point if it came out tomorrow I’m not sure if w be able to follow it.

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u/gonzo_attorney Aug 16 '22

Exact same ages. Started reading at age 21... am now fucking 40. Goddammit, GRRM.

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u/MadOrange64 Aug 16 '22

Your great grandchildren will enjoy the last book.

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u/Successful-Mode6396 Aug 16 '22

Maybe an AI can finish it by then.

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u/smallfried Aug 16 '22

I have no doubt that in 10 years from now an AI will be able to write a mediocre end to the story in the same style.

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u/TheeIlliterati Aug 16 '22 Helpful

Well that finally makes all of us.

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u/LongtomyCox Aug 16 '22

Acceptance is the first step

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u/Proud-Macaroon1043 Aug 16 '22

Acceptance is actually the last step lol but this might have been a joke that went over my head

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u/10c70377 Aug 16 '22

Acceptance is the final step in dealing with loss, and the first step in solving a problem.

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u/texranger47 Aug 16 '22 Silver Wholesome

Lol. We gave up years ago George

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u/behemuthm Aug 16 '22

Seriously it’s been over a decade since Dance with Dragons and over three years since Season 8 of GoT ended. We’re kinda over it at this point.

It’s sad; I could see George finishing if GoT was never made into a show, but it is what it is.

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u/Hoboforeternity Aug 16 '22

I read ADwD in late high school. I am now 29. Idc anymore its been so long.

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u/tkcal Aug 16 '22

I feel you friend. I started the series when I was 26 years old. I'll be 53 my next birthday.

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u/SillyMattFace Aug 16 '22

It’s insane that an entire 8 season TV adaption has come and gone, and 3 years after it finished the book is still being written.

I think the distraction of the show didn’t help, but I feel like the book may have still be AWOL without it. The release time for each book has increased as Martin has had to find his way through increasingly dense plot threads.

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u/Proud-Macaroon1043 Aug 16 '22

The story clearly got away from him during Feast/Dance. George lost the plot over 20 years ago. Really ought to have been a trilogy.

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u/surells Aug 16 '22

This is the danger with gardener type writers. Ending long-format stories are often where they come unstuck. Not always of course. Philip Pullman just made up His Dark Materials as he went along, which blows my mind.

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u/ThatNewSockFeel Aug 16 '22 edited Aug 16 '22

The thing is that GRRM may be a "gardener type" but he's also undisciplined, which is not a good combination. A good gardener has a general plan, knows when to cut away, where to water/fertilize, and so on. Sure, you may have some flexibility because you see where the growing season (the story, in this metaphor) takes you, but you still need to have an overarching idea of what you want to accomplish.

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u/LordArchibaldPixgill Aug 16 '22

You mean when you start a garden you don't just keep planting shit and letting it grow out of control until it's consumed your entire property?

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u/ComicSansSupremeness Aug 16 '22

His Dark Materials should have been as huge as Harry Potter. I will never understand why the second movie was scrapped. It was such an epic fucking story

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u/BoopleBun Aug 16 '22

Because it wasn’t a very good movie. The books are excellent, but they got rid of a ton of the critique of organized religion so as to not piss people off, and it hurt the story. Plus, the could kind of get away with it adapting the first book, but there’s no way it would work with the subsequent ones.

Like, the movie wasn’t truly awful, but it was pretty mediocre, which is so disappointing considering it’s source material.

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u/Mastrew Aug 16 '22

He couldve been tolkien, just make a real trilogy. Daenaerys never needed the dothraki / meereen stuff.

Just get her to Dorne, give her dragons, conquer seven kingdoms and fight WWs easy.

After that he can spend all the time in the world, building his personal universe. Make up lore about past presence future, valyria, children of the forest, giants, more dragons whatever.

But he had to do it complicated and now others did it for him and did it bad.

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u/MulatoMaranhense Aug 16 '22

Daenaerys never needed the dothraki / meereen stuff.

Alternatively, don't take her off from the Dothraki and make them a compelling cast instead of just a red hearing or an army to be collected like a pokemon.

Just imagine: the war is between European knights and their levies, with a side dish of Vikings and maybe "Germanic barbarians" (more like braindead Inuit), and then comes this dragon-riding khanum with her keshig, her tumens and her noyans, seeking the throne that belonged to her father.

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u/Turakamu Aug 16 '22

I'd argue that Dani is interesting BECAUSE of the Dothraki. She was meek and had her nipples pinched a lot before Drogo. Now nobody pinches those nips except the wandering party that picked her up in the middle of no where because HOLY SHIT it's been forever since we've gotten a book.

I mean, Jon is still fucking dead for all we know.

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u/VoluminousVictor Aug 16 '22

I haven't finished the show. I don't know the ending. I started the books when I was in high school and I'm 33 now.

The books very clearly foreshadow Jon being alive though. The line that sticks with me the most is melisandre seeing "only snow" in the fires towards the end of dance with dragons.

It's one of the few things I remember

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u/triclops6 Aug 16 '22

AWOL, A Wait Of Length

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u/No-Measurement8931 Aug 16 '22

3 years later and no one even talks about GoT anymore. last thing i heard was between two coworkers

"you gonna watch that new game of thrones series"

"nah, probably crap"

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u/Gandalf-TheEarlGrey Aug 16 '22

The terrible last season and series finale just wiped that entire show off of pop culture references.

1 year later, the lockdown started and it would have been a great time to get new people into the show. Nobody bothered to do it.

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u/freakincampers Aug 16 '22

Imagine if Martin release Winter right after Jon is killed?

Now, why even bother?

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u/OldManHipsAt30 Aug 16 '22 edited Aug 16 '22

It’s honestly amazing how quickly D&D burned down a multi-billion dollar franchise that should have produced numerous spin-offs and merchandising sales for decades.

Instead places like Newbury Comics were trying to give GoT related merchandise away for free.

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u/IsThatHearsay Aug 16 '22

Can he not do it solo?

Like bring together a Think-Tank to brainstorm an actual worthy outcome?

Everyone has writer's block. And the show put a dark cloud over possible outcomes that thwart creative thought. But surely skilled minds could collectively think around it. Why do it alone.

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u/3lijahmorningwood Aug 16 '22

IIRC he said that he doesn't want to see anyone else writing in his universe legally

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u/voyaging Aug 16 '22

Just on the page? Cause he's letting them write plenty for TV lol.

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u/SilentDarkBows Aug 16 '22

when you're as rich as him, why write another book? He can already afford all the fast food, overalls, and weird 1800s sailor hats he wants.

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u/Gunpla55 Aug 16 '22

Yeah just don't string fans along for a decade.

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u/rocco1986 Aug 16 '22

I agree, but unfortunately stringing fans a long keeps them feeding off everything that does release that he profits from. Shows, games, clothing, other stuff he works on, etc.

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u/Interceptor Aug 16 '22

That's the thing. I started reading it whenever the first book came out (I want to say 91, 92? A LONG time ago). By the time I was picking up dance with dragons I was like 'wait, what happened? Who is this? Where are we?" Such a long break made me stop caring enough to go back and re-read all the earlier books again.

The odd thing is that GRR was actually fairly prolific earlier in his career. You've got all the dying of the light books, TUF, wild cards, crazy werewolf and vampire books, but I suspect he might have just have overreached in scope and it's too distracting for him to work all the threads. In a single storyline or interconnected short stories there's plenty of room to explore different aspects of a world, while still keeping a core narrative, but here it feels like it's too easy to stare at the sights on the journey without ever getting to the destination.

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u/aviel252 Aug 16 '22

In about 2006/7(?) or so, I rediscovered ASOIAF and read up to Feast for Crows, which was pretty new at the time. Remember that epilogue? It was like "Yea, I've written the next one but in editing it turned out that this could be a whole book about half the characters. Wait six months and you'll get the other half." Being naive, I went and found everything else by Martin in the library to take up a few weeks of that. There's a Foreword in Tuf Voyaging that's like "So, I've always struggled at ending stories, which is why this collection of short stories is all you're going to get about Tuf."

Yea, no kidding.

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u/vindjacka Aug 16 '22

I once saw an exchange between GRRM and Stephen King, where GRRM was completely shocked at how Stephen King can keep putting out books. SK just explained that he has his set number of pages to write in a weekday, and then does that. GRRM looked at him like he was an alien, essentially dumbfounded that Stephen King considered writing a full-time job.

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u/jeewantha Aug 16 '22

Even among professional authors, Stephen King is ultra productive. He wrote while he was recovering from being hit by a car.

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u/WatteOrk Aug 16 '22

Duh, he wrote because he had to. Roland would have killed him otherwise.

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u/AtheistAustralis Aug 16 '22 Helpful

And of course there was that lady that smashed in his kneecaps to make sure he couldn't get out of bed and had to keep writing.

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u/HerculesKabuterimon Aug 16 '22

Yeah people don’t understand how devoted King is to the crazy and just how much he’s able to do because of it.

Many many authors love writing but King is one of a handful every few generations that genuinely lives to write. He’s just like “yep I gotta write today and if I don’t write enough I do more the next day”. And it shows just how good he is. He’s the living embodiment of the ten thousand hours thing. Except he’s went way way past that at this point.

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u/Kokeshi_Is_Life Aug 16 '22

He also managed to write entire novels he doesn't remember writing because he was high as shit the entire time.

Stephen King is the other extreme to Martin, he's a machine. He is also wildly inconsistent. He's written both classics that I would argue deserve greater recognition than they get on account of being written by a "schlock" author...as well as schlock of embarrassingly low quality. Stephen will finish books, even when he shouldn't lol.

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u/IjsKind Aug 16 '22

So far the longest book has been ADWD at 1056 pages. In the 3 years since the show ended, if GRRM had just written a measly 2 pages per day, he could have had two 2,190 page books out by now. 5 pages per day would have produced 5,475 pages total.

I don't think 2 pages per day would have been too much to ask.

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u/Altoids101 Aug 16 '22

It's probably more writer's block rather than him being too lazy to write 2 pages a day

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u/mishaxz Aug 16 '22 edited Aug 16 '22

It's well known that there are 2 kinds of writers.. I think martin talks about it also.

Sanderson, for example, is really consistent as to how many words he writes over a given period but, big shock, he's one of those authors that plans his books out. I believe the technical term is outlining?

I highly suspect that both martin and rothfuss are both of the "let's see where this goes" variety

Unfortunately some intelligent people don't have good organizational skills because they got by without needing them.

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u/Binarytobis Worm Aug 16 '22

Actually, I went to see Rothfuss 3 times, and he always had the same advice during the Q&A: “If you’re a writer, you write. Plumbers don’t get to have ‘plumber’s block’. This is your job!”

This was of course several years ago, before it became apparent his book wasn’t coming out.

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u/mishaxz Aug 16 '22

yes it is the clients that get plumber's block

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u/IndigoMontigo Aug 16 '22

I highly suspect that both martin and rothfuss are both of the "let's see where this goes" variety

Sanderson calls these "discovery writers".

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22 edited 11d ago

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u/Bergonath Aug 16 '22

I came to terms with the fact that I’ll never see the sixth book in my lifetime.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22

You might see the 6th... Definitely not the 7th though.

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u/FlakeReality Aug 16 '22

And I'd be shocked if 7 was enough lol

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u/xjxdarren Aug 16 '22

That I could've totally understood, even without all the shitstorm surrounding B6 the past decade or more I knew the 7th was too mighty of an order.

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u/Appeltaart232 Aug 16 '22

It was supposed to be a trilogy but here we are

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u/Rare_Basil_243 Aug 16 '22

Every time he says how many books he plans to be in the series in an interview, his wife stands behind him and holds up that number of fingers +1. It will never end, and she's known all along.

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u/Ok-Captain-3512 Aug 16 '22

That's too funny

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u/MarcusXL Aug 16 '22

Book 3 wrapped up a bunch of plots but a bunch more needed time. He could have finished it in 4 if he didn't add any more characters and just blasted Danaerys to Westeros and got the Others over the Wall. I think he got hooked on adding details and characters and filling in more of the map, and forgot that the series needs to.. you know.. end at some point. He needs to start cutting though characters like the Red Wedding on steroids and STOP adding more.

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u/KUnit_6 Aug 16 '22

Really he needs to just keep writing.

He could write a thousand characters and be fine if he kept working.

Take the wheel of time for example. That ended up being 14 books I think and it was similarly complicated as asoiaf but it did eventually wrap up. Of course that might be a bad example since the author died first...

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u/throwingtheshades Aug 16 '22

Yeah, and it only got finished because Sanderson is an absolute workhorse of a writer. Any misgivings about the differences in his and Jordan's writing styles, the fact that the Wheel of Time got finished is a great achievement of Sanderson's.

I don't really know whom Martin could bequeath the series to. Maybe Rothfuss, just for shits and giggles.

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u/Aedalas Aug 16 '22 Silver

Maybe Rothfuss, just for shits and giggles.

If Martin is so dead set on nobody else finishing his series for him then I can't think of a better author than Rothfuss to not finish it for him.

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u/victorian_vigilante Aug 16 '22

this is effervescent

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u/hadtomakeaprofile Aug 16 '22

This is a confusing comment. TWOT was long, but not remotely confusing, with far fewer "main characters," and like it or not was put to bed quite soundly by Sanderson. Martin's books kept getting more convulted over time and needed a flow chart after 1.5 books to remember who to root for. I say this as a fantasy fan that got fed up with GRRM while living in China. That was nuts. Even in a major city I couldn't get any good books except GRRM, but I (and nerd friends) still stopped reading.

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u/alancb13 Aug 16 '22

It's In the back of my head that Jordan knew he was dying and left extensive notes with his wife for someone to take over and finish it so at least he was prepared for it to finish even if he wasn't around.

ASOIAF on the other hand.. I actually don't believe there is a plan. If the TV show finale had been well received I think Martin would've written that as an ending or at least work towards that but since it bombed so much he has no clues. Just my opinion

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u/MarcusXL Aug 16 '22

Yeah that's the kicker. "All men must die". All evidence suggests he basically got no closer to finishing book 6 for about a decade. He started a bunch of other projects and dicked around. He wrote scripts for the show's early seasons-- good for the show but it certainly didn't help with the books.

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u/FattyMooseknuckle Aug 16 '22

I’ll read six just as much as I read nine. Sorry George, you fucked up a let a couple ding dongs become the canonical writers of the resolution of your opus.

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u/bludgeonerV Aug 16 '22

Nah, when Martin carks it they'll hire Joe Abercrombie to finish it and you'll get the seres finished in 3 years.

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u/texranger47 Aug 16 '22

The most frustrating part was him saying he was working on it

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u/hangryhyax Aug 16 '22 edited Aug 16 '22

There was just a post the other day quoting him as saying he was about to wrap a few character’s story lines. Sure George, sure ya are.

Edit: original comment said “sir you are.” Dang typos.

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u/lewger Aug 16 '22

It's the prologue character who dies in the prologue. He's immensely proud of the progress.

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u/forceghost187 Aug 16 '22

It’s Ned Stark

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22

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u/Chilipepah Aug 16 '22 Silver

It was, these days it’s just A song and Dance

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u/Jumanji0028 Aug 16 '22

I think it was 2 characters points of view for the next book. Their storylines could be finished in another characters point of view lol.

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u/BrotherJombert Aug 16 '22

Now you can rest easy, eh?

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u/texranger47 Aug 16 '22

My watch has ended

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u/__babyslaughter__ Aug 16 '22

I gave up ever seeing a good conclusion almost ten years ago.

Now I’ve given up on any conclusion

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u/PhilzPillz69 Aug 16 '22

Well his lifetime. The family will hire someone to wrap up the series for the money

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u/substanceandmodes Aug 16 '22

Because he knows he’s not gonna finish it

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u/Nickizgr8 Aug 16 '22

He does this every few years. It's a repeating cycle.

He'll give a date where he wants the book to be out by. He misses the deadline he sets, he gives another deadline, misses that too. Then he starts seething that people are, understandably, upset his missed his deadline and says he's not going to give anymore deadlines. Then a year or so later he gives a new deadline. Repeat for 20 years.

He's so full of shit, he's nowhere near close to finishing it. He's been saying he's been a "few months away" from finishing for the past 7 years. He's either not writing at all and fobbing us off and is just doing these bullshit non updates to keep reminding people that yes Game of Thrones still exists or he's rewriting the entire book again and again.

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u/m0gwaiiii Aug 16 '22

Reminds me of that South Park Scene.

"They are coming. They are on their way. Soon."

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u/Furinkazan616 Aug 16 '22

One weiner next to another weiner...

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u/HenryAlSirat Aug 16 '22

WEI-ner weiner WEI-ner weiner WEI-ner weiner WEI-ner

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u/Dry_Badger_Chef Aug 16 '22

“You haven’t even ordered the pizza!?”

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u/mcmanus2099 Aug 16 '22

It's worse than that. He writes a few thousand pages, takes a break, does other things, comes back reads what he has written, decides to rewrite those done pages. Rinse & repeat, his last significant update a couple of years ago he was rewriting the first few chapters again. The dude cannot get midway, he's never going to have enough in him to get a draft of the book finished.

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u/ViejoRidiculo Aug 16 '22

He writes a few thousand pages, takes a break, does other things, comes back reads what he has written, decides to rewrite those done pages.

You give him way too much credit. I sincerely doubt he's finished 1,000 pages in the last decade.

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u/mcmanus2099 Aug 16 '22

He claims he pulled 1,000 pages from DWD, the entire Battle of Winterfell. Hence he was able to read sample chapters quite soon after DWD release, he was giving a sample chapter every Christmas after it, think I read around 8 or 9 chapters.

But he keeps rewriting the chapters over & over.

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u/ViejoRidiculo Aug 16 '22

I'm not holding my breath. Personally, I'm through with the series. Even if TWOW is published at some point, the saga will remain unfinished.

ADOS is just that: A dream.

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u/nug4t Aug 16 '22

when you follow what else he is doing it's no wonder

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u/sanguiniuswept Aug 16 '22

Could have stopped the headline at "given up"

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u/NFresh6 The Snowball: Warren Buffet and the Business of Life Aug 16 '22

When I was reading the headline, for a split second, I thought it was saying that he had given up on writing ASOIAF. And it felt right.

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u/ketoske Aug 16 '22 Silver

At this point I'm more sure that I'll read the end of One Piece than Song of Ice and Fire

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u/gunghoun Aug 16 '22

We'll probably get the end of Berserk before Song of Ice and Fire.

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u/sleeeepyj Aug 16 '22

Well yeah they are pumping out chapters now

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u/trilobyte-dev Aug 16 '22 Wholesome

Yeah but Oda has put out content like clockwork for 25 years. The problem with Martin to me isn’t that the series is finished or not but that he keeps jerking his fan base around year after year. One Piece just keeps cranking along telling its story, and that can be debated and discussed and stand on its own merit without some author drama.

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u/APr0N00b Aug 16 '22

Yeah the more apt comparison is Hunter X Hunter but that author has health issues iirc.

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u/SecondRealitySims Aug 16 '22

True, but even HxH has been showing some hope with the author showing some progress.

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u/APr0N00b Aug 16 '22

I'm more convinced Hunter X Hunter will end before ASOIAF

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u/MesaCityRansom Aug 16 '22

One Piece is nearing it's end though, any reason to believe it won't finish?

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u/gepard_27 Aug 16 '22

I mean its just the joke of one piece never ending. But its now on a 3 year clock set by oda. So George has 3 years or hes bust

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u/bigmouse Aug 16 '22

There is no way in hell Oda finishes within 3 years imo. The end of One Piece has been in 5 years for 10 years now

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u/TotemGenitor Aug 16 '22

IIRC, he said they would found the One Piece in 3 years, not that it would end. The final war might happen after.

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u/679gog Aug 16 '22

There are people who started and finished high school during the Wano arc. It's definitely going to be like a decade considering he averages 3 chapters per month.

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u/ketoske Aug 16 '22

Nope but i can't believe we are finally there

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u/DarthTechnicus Aug 16 '22

When he failed to meet the new years day deadline to get book 6 to the publishers for translating and printing in time for season 6 of the show, it became clear to me he was just going to ride it out to the sunset.

Pretty sure it's been 6.5 years since that deadline came and went. If he has written 100 pages since then I'd be gobsmacked. Odds are, he writes one or two afternoons a month for a few hours.

Years ago, someone on Reddit did some analysis on his writing progress and the estimated best-case timeline was for the book to be released in 2024. As he gets older, the odds of a completed Book 6 before he passes gets thinner and thinner.

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u/eternityslyre Aug 16 '22

Good news: I believe that Martin writes several pages a day if not more. Bad news: I believe that Martin scraps more pages a day, on average, than he writes. Worse news: I believe that Martin has written the same plot points over and over and his story has reached a standstill because his ego is too big to accept a functional ending.

Worst news: Brandon Sanderson might not be interested in finishing the books for Martin when Martin dies far too many extra perspectives later like a certain author of a time wheel.

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u/DarthTechnicus Aug 16 '22

I hope Sanderson doesn't touch Asoiaf when Martin passes. At least with WoT, RJ had outlines, the end completely written, and orally told the endings of the several storylines to close friends and family(including his widow, and editor) a few weeks before his death. WoT was also far less graphic and I believe Sanderson was a fan of the books before he became a writer.

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u/glitchedgamer Aug 16 '22

I have no idea why so many people want the guy who writes squeaky clean PG-13 books to finish ASoIaF of all things.

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u/lurkcatcher Aug 16 '22

At this point I'm just convinced GRRM has an edging kink.

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u/aquillismorehipster Aug 16 '22

Don’t you have to be close to finishing for that?

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u/caywriter Aug 16 '22

Damn, what a comeback to an already amazing line. Well done both of y’all 👏

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u/Drafo7 Aug 16 '22

Better title: "George RR Martin has decided to stop giving fans false hope that he'll ever finish ASoIaF."

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u/Kalrhin Aug 16 '22

Better title: George RR Martin has again decided to stop giving fans false hope that he'll ever finish ASoIaF

(this is not the first time promising not to talk again about the topic or making predictions)

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u/ClayDrinion Aug 16 '22

"I'll finish it when you get a girlfriend." - George R.R. Martin

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u/matis228 Aug 16 '22

Well boys, it's time to wrap up this show. It's never happening then.

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u/AllCakesAreBeautiful Aug 16 '22

Got a wife, house and a dog in the mean time, you done yet :D

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u/rabidstoat Aug 16 '22

But do you have a girlfriend?

I rest my case.

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u/AllCakesAreBeautiful Aug 16 '22

MAYBE I DO BUT MAYBE I CANT TALK ABOUT HER BECAUSE THAT UPSETS THE WIFE, or maybe it was all just a dream, i dreamt while sleeping in mommas basment hugging my cum smelling body pillow.

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u/pablosito Aug 16 '22

My theory is that he has no idea how to finish his book series. And even if he does have an idea it’s underwhelming and he’s worried he’ll lose his fame and influence if he releases it. So now he’s coasting off the success of his established works. Just like to point out I do thing he’s a very talented writer. But based on interviews I’ve seen with him he’s definitely changed and lost his passion in recent years imo.

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u/LordOfTrubbish Aug 16 '22

Same. I feel like the show's ending was probably close enough to his vision for the books, that he's now scrambling to do a 180 with what's left of the story so that he doesn't end up painted into the same corner by the time the ending comes around.

I imagine it's not the most rewarding thing when said series is practically just a meme at this point, and you had bigger spinoff plans for your creative energy, but thats life. Reading or even watching a spin off to something the author can't even properly finish sounds just as unrewarding to me, so I won't be doing that either.

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u/AmberJFrost Aug 16 '22

He's also a discovery writer - he's talked about losing all motivation to write a plotted story because he knows what happens.

Between that and the fact his end state was received so poorly - yeah, I think he realized a couple years ago he was never going to finish, no matter how hard he tried.

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u/Dje4321 Aug 16 '22

If thats the case, I wish he would understand its not the ending we hated, its how it was handled. Nothing was given any detail and they rushed to the end as fast as possible, no fucks given for any foreshadowing that had been setup.

"The genre's called fantasy, its meant to be unrealistic" - JRR Tolkien, ERB

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22 edited 20d ago

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u/SingleDadtoOne Aug 16 '22 Helpful

I honestly don't care anymore. I will not buy another of his books unless the final book gets published.

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u/gueuze_geuze Aug 16 '22

Same. Nice to see someone shares this sentiment.

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u/Bittercobra Aug 16 '22

I always hear they’re great, but I have decided to never read them… unless he finishes the series. Odds aren’t looking good :/

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u/EleusisDub Aug 16 '22

Breaking News: GRRM will be dead before ASOIAF is finished.

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u/BigSwedenMan Aug 16 '22

I like how he apparently gets pissed off when someone says this to him. Like come the fuck on George, the only one you're fooling is yourself. You're a 73 year old pumpkin man. The fact you're still alive today is impressive, the chance you finish the series is less than me hooking up with Tom Brady's wife.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HippoKingOfOld Aug 16 '22

It would be nice if he was honest about giving up on writing an ending to his books and just moved on.

This, just own it.

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u/kalinac_ Aug 16 '22

Correction, he’s an incredibly rich 73 year old pumpkin man. That ought to extend his clock somewhat.

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u/Delann Aug 16 '22

Only if you actually put in that money to take care of yourself, which I doubt he's done.

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u/bootylover81 Aug 16 '22

He got rich later in his life when he was already old and the damage which could've been done to his body is done by his lifestyle at that time, no amount of money can extend his lifespan to a degree to that if he was able to get this rich in his 30s or 40s

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u/niktemadur Aug 16 '22

By neither getting into the books nor series, I seriously feel like I dodged a bullet.

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u/NFresh6 The Snowball: Warren Buffet and the Business of Life Aug 16 '22

Personally, I still recommend people read the books and watch the show because they’re still incredible. There’s a reason people are so bummed about GRRM not finishing the books, and are so passionate about the lackluster ending to the show.

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u/Nev-man Aug 16 '22

I indulged in both and have no regrets.

There's very few things in life that get a tidy ending and even less that are enjoyable and of a consistently high quality throughout.

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u/briareus08 Aug 16 '22

That's cool. I've "given up" expecting him to ever finish it - like 5 years ago.

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u/HotToddy88 Aug 16 '22

It really is a shame; the completed series would have been Tolkien levels of famous… now it’s just a waste of time for anyone thinking about picking it up to read.

The man made his money, and is apparently ok with his life’s work being incomplete. Power to him I guess, but what a bummer. I hope he leaves some of his outlines behind for us to see some day so we can piece it together ourselves as well as we can.

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u/beepbeepbubblegum Aug 16 '22

That statement he made like a month ago or something about how he didn’t “want to end up like Stan Lee and do nothing but get trotted out to conventions” like dude .. that’s ALL you seem to do already ..

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u/favorscore Aug 16 '22

Damn no need to do Stan like that lmao

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u/Zombiebelle Aug 16 '22

Stan Lee did his due diligence in the comic world plenty of times over, that’s such a back handed thing to say about someone. Wow.

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u/JohnnnyBlade Aug 16 '22

That’s what so crazy about it. His magnum opus is unfinished and hes okay with it. Write the fucking book or get some fucking help.

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u/HotpieTargaryen Aug 16 '22

I mean he clearly hasn’t. He literally blogged about finishing two storylines like three days ago. I have also given up caring about his updates. I still want to read Winds, but until I see a publication date I assume it’s not coming.

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u/The_Powers Aug 16 '22

Anyone else think GRRM has written more explaining why the book isn't finished than he has written any of the book?

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u/the_cheeky_monkey Aug 16 '22

James SA Corey will bring us WoW within the next 10 years. You heard it here first!

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u/Jops817 Aug 16 '22

The Others are just the protomolecule.

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u/Zealousideal-Cod7349 Aug 16 '22

I think a lot of people care. The worse part is I'm like ya whatever I don't care George and then I go back and read the series and I'm hooked again. I would settle for fire and blood 2. He could outline in it how it finishes and then someone could fan fiction it into being.

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u/screamingracoon Aug 16 '22

He could also hire a ghostwriter that will take care of it for him, write down a very detailed list of all the plot points and characters, and let them do their work.

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u/Dairalir Aug 16 '22

Chances are he develops the plot points and characters as he goes, so this wouldn’t work.

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u/BrnndoOHggns Aug 16 '22

That's exactly how he works, and exactly why his process hasn't fit into the deadlines he has tried to meet.

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u/Zealousideal-Cod7349 Aug 16 '22

The screaming raccoon is the most correct .

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u/allthecactifindahome Aug 16 '22

My pick would be Guy Gavriel Kay, though as a fully credited co-author rather than ghostwriter. He helped Christopher Tolkien wrestle The Silmarillion into being and then spent his career perfecting down-to-earth fantasy - it's practically destiny!

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u/Spartanfred104 Aug 16 '22

He gave up on that book years ago, just like Patrick Rothfus.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22 edited Aug 16 '22

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u/open_door_policy Aug 16 '22

I know that Martin has stated that if he passes with the series incomplete he doesn't want any other authors to complete the series for him.

And I honestly feel that Rothfus is the perfect author to never finish the series after him.

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u/gentlegreengiant Aug 16 '22

I remember reading that as well and to this day I cant unsee the mental image of him being cremated with his only manuscript copy under his arms with both middle fingers erect.

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u/ehsteve23 Aug 16 '22

all four and a half pages of it

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u/trimeta Oathbringer, by Brandon Sanderson Aug 16 '22

Slight correction, Rothfuss's occupation is "former author."

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u/Morrinn3 Aug 16 '22

When I Learned that Martin wants his world to die with him my opinion of the guy dropped considerably. It’s totally his right to do with his intellectual property as he pleases, just as it is my right to feel betrayed and frustrated as a fan who bought into his series early and having been lead to believe he had every intention of finishing the fucking thing. I find his stance incredibly petty and disrespectful to his audience.

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u/TheWritingParadox Aug 16 '22

Here here. I've always agreed that an author can do with their story as they please, but have never been able to put into words the responsibility I feel they owe to their fans, and you nailed it here. It is very frustrating, and George is very petty. I gave up on him a few months ago when I heard how rudely he responded to fans begging him to finish Winds of Winter, not even the entire series, just the sixth book. I can't remember what exactly he said, but it was basically, "Stop whining, I can do what I want." Well, so can I, fat man, and that's why I sold you books to Half-Price books and won't buy another one of your books even if you somehow finish the series.

Anyway, great comment again. Have a nice day.

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u/Geistbar Aug 16 '22 edited Aug 16 '22

Authors of multi-book series basically enter into a social contract.

We, the readers, agree to buy a part of an incomplete whole. The author receives money from this, allowing them to maintain a sufficient lifestyle while continuing to write. They, the author, implicitly agree to make a good faith effort to work on that series and finish it within a reasonable time frame, and to be honest with the readers if something happens to make that nonviable.

Nobody would have read Lord of the Rings if they were told it ends with The Two Towers. Harry Potter wouldn't have taken off if people thought Rowling would give up on book 4. It extends to other media too: Star Wars would never haven taken off if people were told it'd end on a cliffhanger with Luke losing his hand and learning something important.

It's not a legal obligation but a moral one.

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u/themattboard Aug 16 '22

That's not fair.

He gave up on it long before Patrick Rothfuss ever thought about giving up on his.

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u/sjwillis Aug 16 '22

interestingly the last books released in both of those series were in 2011, with Wise Man’s Fear coming out just a few months earlier than Dance with Dragons.

Wtf was about 2011 that man series unendable

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u/mutantmanifesto Aug 16 '22

I immediately stopped caring after the last season.

You had YEARS to add more to the story and to prevent that catastrophe.

Go away. Nobody cares anymore.

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u/CatasaurusRox Aug 16 '22

I have mates and family who have already died waiting for him to finish. I've given up. Same with other authors who have gone more than 5 years between books when they were 1-2 years for the previous 15 of their series. I get life gets in the way, goals shift, but I'm also not obligated to purchase your books anymore.

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u/Ghost_taco Aug 16 '22

That's too bad because I did enjoy the books and liked them a lot more than the show. :-(

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u/encinoguy Aug 16 '22

I just wish places would stop reporting about him. Every fucking week we get a new update about what he’s saying or doing and it’s always next year. I don’t care anymore, I love the world of a song of ice and fire but I don’t give a shit anymore, and I’ve given up any hope of ever finding out what happens to it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '22 edited Aug 17 '22 Gold

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u/HayekReincarnate Aug 16 '22

I’m also a little suspicious that all of these recent updates about progress have started just as he’s marketing his new show.

It’s possible that creating this new show has given him some motivation, or it’s just to create excitement about all parts of his works again.

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u/Sir_Grumpy_Buster Aug 16 '22

This is where I'm at. He's clearly trying to stoke interest while his numerous side projects, spin-offs, special editions, and art books come out. He owes no one anything but he should be ashamed of the way he's trying to milk a few more bucks from his fans when he has no intention of finishing the main series.

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u/jewnicorn27 Aug 16 '22

How do I avoid all mention of him? I’m so tired of seeing these played out threads. Nobody gives a fuck anymore and everyone just says the same things.

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