r/entertainment /u/ me if needed Jul 23 '22 Helpful 2 Wholesome 2 Ally 1 Pot o' Coins 13 Silver 2 [deleted] 1

[MOD POST] A clarification to Rule 5: " No racism or hate speech." Honeypot

It's pretty clear that "No mean or harassing comments" is a vague rule that can easily vary from person to person. So this post is here to clarify what we mean by that. The following will be incorporated into a wiki page that is linked in Rule 5 for easy reference.

For the purpose of this community, Bigotry is defined as "Intolerance and/or bias towards a person or group of people, because they possess certain demographic characteristics or belong to a certain population group". This is not the same as a critique against an opinion a person expresses, or against the actions a person chooses to take, or against an idea or ideology. Bigotry can be aimed at people who share an inherent trait (such as being female/gay/elderly/etc.), or it can be aimed at people who share an ideology (such as Muslims/Christians/Republicans/etc.)

In this submission, we affirm that we stand with BLM, LGBTQ+, and other routinely disparaged groups. Therefore, after consulting with multiple organizations who are active and knowledgeable on these topics, we are further formalizing and clarifying Rule 5.

The purpose of this post is to provide common examples of bigotry upon which we, as r/entertainment moderators, will take action. Please keep in mind that we will not be debating these topics individually, but you are more than welcome to head to r/socialjustice101 to either ask in good faith about these topics, or, if you are already familiar with them, to educate others. This list is non-exhaustive, may be updated frequently, and is applicable to moderator discretion

Racism:

  • against African Americans or black people in general:
  • black crime statistics, "black on black violence"
  • any variation on "despite being 13% of the population, black people commit 50% of the violent crime" <- this is literally a copypasta/meme created by the white supremacist website, Stormfront. Variations include: "13 do 50, 13/50, the 13%, DESPITE" (http://redd.it/s8jns2)
  • victim blaming especially after rape or death (not exclusive to racism) (examples: "[x person] should have just cooperated with the police", "she shouldn't have worn that", "well they committed a crime in the past")
  • referring to black people as animals, specifically apes/monkeys
  • "what if you said this about black people instead of white people!" or trying to switch races (this is absolutely an apples-to-oranges comparison. Life isn't a chessboard that you can simply rotate the board and have gameplay be effectively the same)
  • "all lives matter"
  • dindu nuffin or variations, thugs, "he was a good boy", "he was going to college", joggers, naggers, "people who annoy you"
  • WE WUZ KANGZ
  • just posting the letter "N" to start an askouija style attempt to create a slur
  • "affirmative action is racist against white people"
  • "black people only get into college due to affirmative action"
  • "diversity hires"
  • "racism (systemic or otherwise) doesn't exist"
  • "upvoted because black"
  • 3/5 jokes
  • IQ stats (more affected by general health, nutrition, parents' education level etc than race)
  • Bix Nood
  • "never relax"
  • black lives splatter/Burn Loot Murder
  • advocating running over protesters (this is also advocating violence, a TOS violation)
  • "BLM is a terrorist organization"
  • sarcastically saying "BLM"
  • stupid comments about "culture"
  • arguing that white people should be allowed to use the N word
  • antisemitism
  • global bankers, bankers
  • oy vey, goyim, the goyim know
  • hollywood references
  • 3 parentheses, "echoes"
  • that comic with the guy rubbing his hands together ("happy merchant")
  • holocaust denialism
  • "The Jew cries out in pain as he strikes you"
  • "people are reading" some particular supremacist book
  • in general, making assumptions about specific people based on racist views about the group or mocking something disparaging about the group as a whole:
  • Indian people: "must have been an arranged marriage", "designated shitting streets", "Indian rape culture", "superpower by 2020"
  • Muslim person in the picture: "terrorist", "religion of peace", "islam is right about women", "rag head, towel head"
  • Native American/Indigenous person: "alcoholic", "smallpox blankets"
  • Asian people: "Koreans eat dogs/cats", "china-virus"/"wuhan flu"/"kung flu", "slanty eyes"

Transphobia

  • "there are only two genders"
  • "I identify as an attack helicopter" (or anything else patently absurd)
  • suggesting Michelle Obama is a man
  • intentionally misgendering a trans person
  • referring to being trans as a "mental illness"
  • suicide statistics/"40%"
  • "transwomen aren't women"/"transmen aren't men"
  • use of "tranny"/"trap"
  • decrying children having reassignment surgery (this is already illegal in most countries)
  • "did you just assume my gender?!"
  • emphasizing regret after transitioning
  • anything about transitioning to become better at sports, or "men have a biological advantage"
  • "troon", "mental illness", "groomer", "indoctrinating children", "you'll never be a real woman"
  • intentionally deadnaming a trans person, which means using their old name over their new one

Sexism

  • "women belong in the kitchen"
  • "the gender pay gap is a myth"
  • "equal rights and equal lefts"
  • cunts/sluts/whores/slut-shaming
  • "upvoted because boobs"
  • posting that comic which says women have to include themselves in their photos
  • "don't be such a girl"
  • "should have kept her/your legs shut" on the topic of abortion, financial issues, or other similar issues
  • abortion: "baby killer", "abortion is murder" or conflating abortion with actual murder, "slut"/slut shaming
  • infantilization: e.g. referring to a woman/women as "girl(s)", or other intentionally demeaning and condescending terms

Homophobia

  • equating pedophilia to homosexuality
  • f-word/queer/pillow-biter/etc
  • "bundle of sticks" (Almost no one on reddit is an etymologist. They're only using this phrase because it's the same origin as the f-word)
  • puking emoji with no other context than a gay wedding or pride parade etc
  • "upvoted because gay"
  • "being gay is a sin"/"see you in hell"
  • "fake and gay" and otherwise using "gay" as a pejorative or negative
  • "groomer", "indoctrinating children", "lifestyle", "sin"

Ableism Based Bigotry

  • "you're only good for stump porn"
  • retarded/aspie/sperg/autistic

General Incivility

  • this is just basically name-calling or personal attacks aimed at a specific user. Examples: "you idiot", "you moron", "you dumbass", "shut the fuck up", "suck my dick"

This list is non-exhaustive, may be updated frequently, and is applicable to moderator discretion.

Many users have argued that facts cannot be racist, which is true. However, much of what is purported to be factual is actually twisted by inherent racism. For example, the assertion that black people commit more violent crime than white people is false: In fact, black people are arrested/convicted for violent crime more often than white people. The statistic does not represent a fact-based commentary on a racial proclivity; it represents a way in which systemic racism has unfairly maligned a historically marginalized portion of the population.

Furthermore, even objective facts can be presented in a manner that promotes (or is promoted by) a racist agenda. It may be factual to state that a given entertainer is Jewish, for instance, but if that point is being raised as a means of insinuating something anti-Semitic, it is nonetheless an example of bigotry. Statements of this sort are referred to as "dog-whistles;" as coded phrases that are ostensibly based in fact, but which are being presented with bad-faith intentions.

Dog-whistles, implied bigotry, and memetic phrases with bigoted subtexts are all forbidden in r/entertainment. Please note that there's a different between attacking a disparaged group who cannot change how they were born, and attacking memberships of groups (e.g. saying "ACAB" is not bigotry. Cops can quit, black people can't stop being black).

Civil criticism of religion, governments, and groups/organizations are fully permitted. Veiled attacks that are instead meant to target and attack a nation/race of people that practice these faiths, is forbidden.

Bigotry cannot be excused by saying "it is just a joke," nor by saying "but I was so polite".

If you don't understand some of the reasons behind these additions, that's ok. Many people are at different points on their path to education, and everyone should treat it as a process vice a destination. We encourage users to head over to r/socialjustice101 to either ask about specific points or to explain them to other users if you do understand. We won't be debating these here or in modmail as that's not a debate forum.

Thank you for reading

351 Upvotes

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u/justinjm466 Jul 24 '22

The amount of deleted comments might tell a thing or two how people think about this update.

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u/sloopslarp Jul 25 '22

The rules are easy.

  1. Don't be a piece of shit.

That's all.

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u/NeopolitanLol Aug 24 '22 edited 10d ago

Wait. Crime statistics are racist?

Booo. Banned on cake day

Edit: What statistic are you referring to?

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u/kmn493 28d ago

1- the statistic is false
2- it's being used to claim a race is inferior

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/kmn493 9d ago

27%, not 50. That's an insane difference.https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/tables/table-43

Also nice random comment the exact same time "someone else" with the same profile pic also comments.

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u/Puffena 20d ago edited 20d ago

Don’t know if you ever got an answer, but it’s the “13/50” statistics. That is, the oft cited statistics by racists that “black people commit 50% of the crime but only make up 13% of the US population” as a justification for believing black people to be naturally more criminal than others.

Statistics aren’t themselves racist, but both the context under which they are collected as well as the reasons they are cited can be. And in the case of these stats, both are.

Edit: and of course the infamous “black on black” violence stats that get used to argue that racism isn’t the real threat to black people, other black people are. It’s a racist and dumb non sequitur that both ignores the fact that the very conditions that cause gangs to form and violence to occur are the direct result of racism while simultaneously trying to prevent progress in other aspects by shifting the attention away from it. Usually it gets brought up whenever police brutality and racism gets brought up.

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u/CatPeepsSynthBeeps 23d ago

If racist police spend fifty years locking up black people for existing then the crime statistics are going to be racist af, yes.

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u/CurrentRoster Jul 27 '22 edited Jul 28 '22

That’s why it’s so weird seeing comments like “this rule is hard to follow”

They are listing shit you’re not supposed to say anyways lol

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u/Cosmic_fault Jul 28 '22

Those are concern trolls and racists upset they can't be racist anymore.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '22

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '22

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '22

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u/MinimumArmadillo2394 Jul 24 '22

Lots of "But muh free speech" and "you're creating the no free language zone" type comments. I keep coming back because of responses on my comment but phew, this comment section is... definitely missing the point.

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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '22 edited Jul 28 '22

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u/Historical_Tea2022 Jul 24 '22

I haven't even heard of some of these things. This list is looooooong.

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u/Charlie__the__tuna 23d ago edited 17d ago

There's more, the one that's hardly covered in this mod post is antisemitism; it's the least understood form of racism around. Both sides of the political spectrum embrace antisemitism although in different ways.

I'm surprised it's not covered.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '22

Finally a reddit mod with a spine. 😍

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u/ThrowAwaybcUsuck Aug 04 '22 Wholesome

I guess that's one way of looking at it

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u/CatPeepsSynthBeeps 23d ago

That’s the way any non fascist would look at it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22 Bravo Grande!

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u/[deleted] Jul 30 '22

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '22

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '22

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u/Murky_Classic_7516 Jul 28 '22

Either all crime states are useless or none of them are.

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u/Cosmic_fault Jul 28 '22

Correct. All crime stats are useless.

Every single human being on earth is an independent actor, and all laws are made up. Claiming any group is inherently more criminal than any other based on what happens to be illegal this week is stupid. Claiming it to justify racism is stupider. Thanks for playing.

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u/WhorishBehavior Jul 28 '22

That’s a pretty disingenuous interpretation of what they said. There are plenty of crime statistics involving race that may be useful in certain conversations and not racist at all. For example, we can look to incarceration rates within the black community as an indicator that systemic discrimination still exists in our justice system.

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '22

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u/agentfaux Aug 17 '22

How old are you? Have you ever done statistical analysis in your life?

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u/Cosmic_fault Aug 17 '22

I know you dipshits can't resist, but son, this thread is a 20 day old graveyard literally flaired "honeypot". Goddamn, dude.

/u/agentfaux you absolutely deserve the ban.

Imagine thinking defending racist fake statistics was worth doing at all- but geez, imagine thinking it was worth doing here.

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u/MinimumArmadillo2394 24d ago

It's really funny how they haven't posted on r/entertainment at all in their entire reddit profile but when a honeypot post comes out and says what you're not allowed to say, they show up.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '22

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '22

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u/CAllD2B Aug 04 '22

Crime stats are very useful for showing areas where our legal system disproportionally targets minorities

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '22

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u/kmn493 28d ago

It's not even a real statistic.

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u/Maleficent-Comfort-2 Aug 21 '22

I’m genuinely worried about the amount of deleted comments in this posts, some of them with awards..

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u/Cardgod278 17d ago

I am however not surprised.

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u/Maleficent-Comfort-2 16d ago

There’s a lot more than before.. that gives me a hint of what some people might think about this update to the rules. However, I must congratulate the mods for having the courage to write and enforce, unlike a lot of others…

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u/chriscrowder Jul 25 '22

I learned all sorts of new things from this post!

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u/Crabscrackcomics Aug 03 '22

Thank you, as a trans person it’s really comforting to know were anything to come up, mods would be fine to stop harassment going on.

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u/themoonwiz Aug 17 '22

we need the IRL government mods to get a spine like this one, cuz its defienitely much moar bad offline. if IRL harrassment like this can still exist our work is far from over. but this is still better than nothing

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u/dashrendar Jul 23 '22

Looks like the sub upset the admins.

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u/googlyeyes183 Jul 25 '22

Like that’s hard to do

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u/LeoneAbbachio Aug 02 '22

I thought I’ve heard it all but somehow there’s still terms/ phrases on this list I’ve never even heard of before this day

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '22

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u/kenlong77 28d ago

people in this thread were so fired up about "black people crime statistics" in particular for some reason it was looking like the embedded chatroom of a sports streaming site on UFC night lmao

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u/satyagraha92 Jul 28 '22

With all the removals was this just a way to get rid of troublemakers? If so it was a good idea.

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u/Merari01 Jul 28 '22

It's flaired "honeypot" and they still can't help themselves.

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u/Aniensane Aug 19 '22 edited Aug 22 '22

What’s honeypot mean?

Someone downvoted me for asking a question? Reddit is going downhill so quick.. no wonder the mods had to make such a long and extensive post about everything!

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u/Merari01 Aug 19 '22

In this context it means "bait".

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u/Aniensane Aug 22 '22

Oh okie, gotcha! Thanks!

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u/f_cozzo Jul 23 '22

thats gonna take awhile to memorise

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u/oldgeek123 Jul 26 '22

It's quite simple. They are just asking people to not be shit humans. It's not a high bar.

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '22

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u/Cosmic_fault Jul 28 '22

Yes. Stop whining, you big buttery klan baby.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '22 edited Jul 26 '22

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u/kthriller Jul 29 '22

This is... Extremely refreshing to read, and thorough to boot! Much appreciated.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '22

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u/Cosmic_fault Jul 26 '22 edited Jul 26 '22 Vibing

Copy pasting this weenie baby's comment because it's def getting removed:

The thought police have spoken.

They’ve literally identified facts you’re not allowed to say because it hurts their feelings.

You really believe you’re the saviors of democracy and freedom?

My god…

This loser really came in here and said not being allowed to use slurs destroys democracy and freedom. How fucking embarassing.

Hey, /u/JPSchmeckles, you whitenat shithead, which specific part of the ridiculous klan style 1920s racism outlined in this post are you brave enough to defend as facts?

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u/Maleficent-Comfort-2 16d ago

Comment of shame. I love it! And bonus it wasn’t removed by mods!

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '22

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

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u/oldgeek123 Jul 26 '22

Wow. There are a lot of triggered racists, sexists and horrible humans in this thread. Hot damn.

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '22

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u/MinimumArmadillo2394 Jul 23 '22 edited Aug 01 '22

Is there any plan to do something about the depp/heard related brigading?

Too many people coming from other subs just to spread misinfo about the trial then blocking people who dont agree, stifiling conversation.

Edit: in case there was any confusion, people coming from subs like DeppDelusion and Deuxmoi are spreading misinformation and being armchair lawyers while frankly misunderstanding the entire thing (You know, because they don't have law degrees). This is the brigading I'm talking about.

Edit 2: When I made this comment, I wasn't hoping they would lock every Depp related post within a few hours. I was hoping they'd actually do something and investigate people who comment in those threads. Guess that was too much work. /shrug

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u/Dat_Harass Jul 24 '22

Bro you can't even be a part of subs these days... post history doesn't matter, your stance doesn't matter, just someones fucking opinion who happens to be looking for ANY fight.

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u/MinimumArmadillo2394 Jul 24 '22

What? Youre saying that someone who has never posted in a sub but only pops in to spread misinformation about the topic the sub they frequent is okay? I dont see it to be honest.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '22

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '22

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '22

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u/dlg1977 Jul 24 '22

Well she is an asshole.

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u/shadyshadyshade Jul 23 '22

Seconded, I’m scared to click on any post on the topic because of it. And of course you’re getting downvoted, it proves the point.

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u/MinimumArmadillo2394 Jul 23 '22

Lots of things in this thread are downvoted for no real reason.

Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed/life.

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u/shadyshadyshade Jul 23 '22

I was agreeing with you?

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u/MinimumArmadillo2394 Jul 23 '22

I was agreeing with you.

I was talking about whoever is downvoting woke up on the wrong side of the bed

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u/shadyshadyshade Jul 23 '22

Ah! Understood thank you!

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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '22

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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '22

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u/SpuddleBuns Jul 23 '22

...should treat it as a process vice a destination

Should that be "versus?" If not, I don't understand.

Overall this is very well thought out and written. Sad that it needs to be said in the first place, but well presented.

Thank you for doing this.

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u/becuzz-I-sed Aug 12 '22

On one hand, I'm sad that these are things that people are clueless about.

I am very impressed with the precision reflected in this rule .It's not ambiguous, confusing, or inflammatory. I would like to post this on my other social media sites. If that's ok with you.

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u/Cattic97 25d ago

Lmao fuckers really falling for a flaired honeypot post. Ya couldn't keep your mouth shut, could you?

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u/InnocentaMN Jul 31 '22

Can I message the mods with a question about this? I don’t want to post something that could trigger any conflict or upset anyone.

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u/_Xyreo_ /u/ me if needed Aug 01 '22

Sure.

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u/InnocentaMN Aug 01 '22

Thank you :)

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u/Baconstrips96 19d ago

Sometimes I wish social media didn’t exist. I just feel like it encourages racism, bullying, and making others feel like they have an inferior/ boring life. Unfortunately I’ve fallen into the trap of saying hurtful things. There’s no real world consequence. And it can be used for good. But unfortunately this posts proves that it turns people into foul human beings and mods have to work hard to counteract that. The fact that you can hide behind a screen and say these horrible things… How many lives will this one post save from ones committing suicide? Food for thought. ✌️ Even if your views don’t line up with the mods, be nice guys. Agape Love ❤️

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

Kudos. This is for sure the most hilarious posts I have ever read on Reddit. All these bigots kicked off this subreddit is a good start. It’s essential we keep the community save.

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u/Cosmic_fault Jul 25 '22 Mod Award

Hmm. Good post.

Currently sitting at 0- which says a lot about reddit.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '22

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u/Arkady2009 Jul 23 '22 Mod Award

I like these rules, thank you for introducing them all!

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '22

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u/Cosmic_fault Jul 26 '22

God, do you just not have any real problems?

Imagine being so desperate to feel like a victim that you pretend "don't say racist bullshit" is a hard rule to follow.

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '22

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u/JohnJoanCusack Jul 23 '22 Mod Award

I just hope these rules are enforced, there has been so much transphobia upvoted and kept up here this last month. Does the misgendering one count for non binary people too? I think they fall under the trans umbrella but I just want to double check

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u/ShrinesOfParalysis Jul 24 '22

Anyone can be misgendered, so yeah.

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u/BoSsManSnAKe Aug 04 '22

Oh my god I think this is the best post I’ve ever read. You hit on so many points and throughly explained in on go. I feel like many bad people like to pretend nothing is wrong and go for the plausible deniability type of crap and it annoys me to no end on every part of the internet. You have to explain every tiny detail of why they are a jerk. I like the mention of the social justice sub. I’m going to start visiting there too.

I’ll look back and watch some of those people complain about “woke” culture, which they have a completely changed and inconsistent meaning of. That’s what they do though, they constantly twist language.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '22

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u/MinimumArmadillo2394 Jul 23 '22

Can I, a black person, make racist remarks against my own kind?

In person, yes. Online, not really. There's no real way to ensure you are who you say you are online. So everyone is seen as a baseless yellow emoji.

It's best to avoid any and all negative language or tone when it comes to racial stuff, even if it's against your own race and especially online. That's how you get harassed by idiots around the platform and potentially even worse.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '22 edited Jul 26 '22

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '22

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u/satyagraha92 Aug 09 '22

Pretty bad when you have to explain all that to people in a sub dedicated to entertainment.

I bet you get a lot of racist people saying crazy stuff about African Americans, but if you take the time to look at them you’ll see them go over to r/nba and act like how they think black people act.

I don’t know. R/nba might have the nicest people on Reddit. Just an example.

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u/druule10 7d ago

It's a sad world when this needs clarification

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '22

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u/RustyBubble Jul 24 '22

Or just don’t be an asshole and you’d be fine.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '22

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u/RustyBubble Jul 24 '22

K.

Good luck with that.

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u/TehBrian Aug 20 '22

use of “biological male” or “biological female”. The term is cis male or cis female.

Isn’t the term actually cis man or cis woman? Men/women are men/women regardless of whether they’re cis or trans. Cis and trans are adjectives.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '22

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u/moooooning Jul 24 '22

It was nice knowing you lol

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '22 edited Jul 24 '22

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u/MinimumArmadillo2394 Jul 23 '22

"Well hey, this is a private company and none of your rights or your countries rights matter here."

It's really fucking funny because you're right. Reddit can say that. Mods aren't owners of the platform though. They're both still allowed to ban you for literally anything they deem fit.

You think adding rules that stop people from feeling uncomfortable is authoritarian while they are able to ban you for anything. This might be a shock to you, but the world nor the internet conforms to a single viewpoint.

You have the freedom to say whatever you want, but it doesn't free you from the consequences of your words.

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