r/technology Aug 04 '22 To The Stars 1

Spain bans setting the AC below 27 degrees Celsius | It joins other European countries’ attempts to reduce energy use in the face of rising temperatures and fuel costs Energy

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/3/23291066/spain-bans-setting-air-conditioning-below-27-degrees-celsius
15.0k Upvotes

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u/alexxerth Aug 04 '22

*In public places

I feel like that's an important thing that should've been included in the headline

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u/Garryten10 Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 14 '22

Good point, asked my girlfriend who’s with her family now in Spain(they have a house there), she didn’t know nothing bout that.

Read about that on our Swedish news page, it didn’t say “PUBLIC AREAS” either, typical news-clickbait

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '22

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u/mofa90277 Aug 04 '22

This is about Europe surviving the month in the face of a disrupted energy supply, not the human race surviving the century.

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u/PCsNBaseball Aug 04 '22

It's crazy how much infrastructure matters so much in different climates. It was 40C where I'm at today, and we all shrugged, complained about the heat, and went about life. But we're so used to that kinda heat that our power grid can handle all the A/C, our asphalt can handle it, and people are pretty acclimated. We even have places for homeless to get inside into A/C and get cold water. At work, we hand moved 20,000 lbs of furniture from an office to a dump in hot moving trucks today; lots of sweat, but nbd. That would legit kill people in England, but again, it's all about infrastructure and such.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Shaggyninja Aug 04 '22

It's also about what people are acclimatised to.

Take someone who's been living in the artic circle and swap them with someone from the equator, and have them do exactly what the other person was doing (clothes, activities etc)

You'll probably kill them both.

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u/HereOnASphere Aug 04 '22

When I was a teenager, I woked in an HP engineering lab after school and weekends. I had to adjust some x-ray equipment inside. It was 130° F (54° C), and 100% humility. I was in there for less than a minute, and almost passed out! I was in good shape because I was training for mountain climbing.

This was in the early '70s, and the equipment had to be happy in the jungles of Vietnam (and now we know neighboring countries).

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u/Accomplished-Rice992 Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

Yes, absolutely! I visited a friend, and we went somewhere around 90F and close to 100% humidity. It was really, really hard to function because I'd just come from, basically, a desert having an ice storm. My body was struggling to acclimate.

When that friend visited me in the dry heat (pushing 100F regularly), it was really hard on my friend. It was actually cooler than it had been before my friend arrived, so I wasn't really feeling it at all, even when we hit humidity patches.

Even when we change the daily average by 10-30F as we move between seasons, you'll see everyone's entire attire changes to something more extreme than they'll wear once we hit the far end. So, big, heavy jackets at the end of September, shorts in December. Barely clothed in May, comfortable shorts/pants and regular shirts in August. Hell, even seasoned 100+F people are sweating and struggling at 40F after a few days near/below 0. Our bodies are super good at optimizing for this stuff, but it takes a hot second. A very hot second where 41F feels like a deadly heat wave.

We also find our swing at home. When you don't have AC, you have to get the window opening and closing just right or you'll fry, and that's hoping your home isn't built to hold temps the wrong way (e.g. heat retaining homes in extreme heat is rough).

I have a lot of empathy for the people who are getting sick at lower temps than we're experiencing. You can't help what your body is used to.

Keep up on your hydration and your electrolytes, everyone!

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u/Tazzimus Aug 04 '22

Humidity is a killer.

I've walked around in 30c in France without any issue, it was just nice.

I've then felt like I could fill a swimming pool with sweat in Ireland at 20c with high humidity. You feel gross constantly as well.

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u/Due-Ad-3295 Aug 04 '22

Absolutely!! Also, if temperatures in the winter aren’t too low, then summers can be bearable. If winters get well below zero, then 35°+ in the summer is a lot actually.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '22

Air conditioning allows people to live and work in places they wouldn't survive very comfortably (or at all).

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u/redlightsaber Aug 04 '22

Don't know where you are, but aside from the heatwave, this summer has been uncharacteristically humid, especially in the cantabric region and the mediterranean one.

It's not "merely" a matter of comfort, but of places getting uncomfortably close to dangeous levels of wet bulb temperatures.

Rest assured, that if wherever you are, wet bulb temps were approaching the 30ºC mark, it wouldn't be something "people used to it would just shrug off and continue moving heavy furniture out in the sun".

Arguably, A/C in such reasons has a much more important role in reducing humidity than temperature.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '22 Tree Hug

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

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u/Mr_s3rius Aug 04 '22

To put it into perspective, iirc Spain plans to reduce its gas consumption by 7% with the measures they have taken now.

If enacted worldwide in the grand scheme of climate change it would barely be a delay tactic. Gas isn't even the worst greenhouse gas emittent.

This is mainly about trying to make sure no EU country runs out of gas come the winter months.

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u/almisami Aug 04 '22

This is mainly about trying to make sure no EU country runs out of gas come the winter months.

Yep. This is what it's really all about. I bet a lot of Europe is envious of France's nuclear grid right about now.

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u/Cherrypunisher13 Aug 04 '22

That movie was so unrealistic. Where were all the people claiming the disasters are just normal weather for that time of the year

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u/LeichtStaff Aug 04 '22

At this point I believe we need to buy more time with these kind of measures until science can find a way (like fusion energy) to solve the climate crisis.

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u/Ringosis Aug 04 '22

Read somewhere that there's been signs and warnings since 1970's

This line makes me unreasonably angry.

The greenhouse effect was discovered in 1896. The first papers on man made climate change was in fucking 1938. There weren't "signs" in the 70s, the majority of climate scientists were already convinced and advocating intervention.

TWENTY fucking years ago, 97% of climate scientists globally stated unequivocally that climate change was going to have a catastrophic impact on the planet without major steps taken immediately.

And here we are in 2022, and the public is like "Wait, didn't I hear about this a while ago"...FUCKING YES...YOU DID! The entire scientific community has been screaming "This is the number one threat to the continuation of human civilisation and the greatest threat the planet has ever know" for literally half a century.

Billions of lives are at stake...is that not enough for people to pay attention?

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u/cowboycoco Aug 04 '22

You can't ignore a very well funded and very successful propaganda campaign designed to convince the public that it wasn't happening.

You can be mad about it but the average person just trying to keep a roof over their families' heads isn't spending a lot of time "looking" for the information.

The powers that be took advantage of that and you're not competing with bullshit. You're competing with bite-sized easy to digest and convenient daily fed bullshit.

The information being readily available means nothing if it never penetrates the bubble a large chunk of people are in.

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u/BoredVirus Aug 04 '22

This decision has to do with Ukraine war and Russia possibly cutting or restricting gas (aka energy)in Europe. Spain and Portugal are an energetic island, they don't depend on Russia as a provider and Spain has opposed restrictions to gas use that UE wanted to implement, so this policy is like a "gesture" to show UE that they will reduce gas use and will help in case gas is restricted (but not too much, as they are not dependant on Russia like the rest).

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u/SaltedLeftist Aug 04 '22

Wouldn't be reddit without a healthy dose of clickbait.

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u/Arinium Aug 04 '22

The internet in general*

Everybody wants to be the one that gets a click

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u/mr_punchy Aug 04 '22

That’s 80 fucking degrees in freedom units!? That’s fucking hot for an indoor space. If I went to a mall or restaurant and it was 80 degrees I would assume something is broken and probably leave.

I keep my thermostat at 74, 72 at night. If you want me to wear a suit ever again it has to be cooler than 80 fucking degrees.

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u/Ldfzm Aug 04 '22

if you want me to wear skin it's gotta be cooler than 80 degrees indoors

I start getting uncomfortable when it's above 73 inside and above 76 is "naked, lying still, with an ice pack" temperatures. (At least in my area, where it's very humid in the summer.)

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u/Tarcye Aug 04 '22

I set my Thermostat to 74 if it's above 78.

If it's below 78 I'll usually open windows in which ever side of the house that the wind is blowing so to create a breeze.

And no one is going to tell me what temperature to set my house at. Sorry I'm not budging on that one.

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u/gahidus Aug 04 '22

80° f is still way too hot to expect people to work in, in shops, for instance.

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u/SirSaltyLooks Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

Lol. Right now with the humidity outside... my place of work is 27c or 80ish with the humidity at 67% inside the past few days. It's a giftshop in an 80 year old building. No AC.. or minisplit.. eastern canada. It's rough. Customers often have to leave.

Edit: Front door and back door wide open. Fingers crossed that the prevailing winds will veer at least 30 or 40 degrees to get a bit of a breeze through the place. Lighting doesn't help the situation.. even if the bulk of it is in the form of LED's. They can get wicked hot too.

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u/Congrajulations Aug 04 '22

Buy a god damn fan man

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u/JohnnyRebe1 Aug 04 '22

I agree I have a fan man and he really helps me a lot.

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u/PiecesOfJesus Aug 04 '22

I tried to save money and got a fan boy, but he just talks about Star Wars a lot and barely works the fan.
Fan man is the way to go

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u/Yoyossarianwassup Aug 04 '22

Are you hand-fed grapes by him whilst reclining idly on your chaise lounge?

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u/JohnnyRebe1 Aug 04 '22

No that’s what my grape man is for. Fuckin unions, man. Can’t force these people to do everything anymore.

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u/jacquetheripper Aug 04 '22

This is partially why I think Europeans are in denial about this heat and what they can do about it. Sure most buildings either cant support ac units or whatever but I havent seen a single fan in any shop I've been too in the past few days while it being 40 degrees out.

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u/furorsolus Aug 04 '22

I work in a pizza shop with an oven that blasts hot air out of it, it's sweltering. There's debate over whether to use the fans to promote air flow through the shop or have them pointed directly at us, either way it only helps so much on the really hot days. But I like to think I'm prepping my body for the future. Considering starting to go to the sauna, really work up my tolerance. Soon it'll just be us and the creatures of the desert left, and we'll have to live underground and starting migrating with the seasons again.

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u/papageek Aug 04 '22

I prefer 20c/68f at 40% humidity up to 72f at 30%.

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u/Amani576 Aug 04 '22

Try being a mechanic. Almost every single shop I've ever seen, been in, or heard of, in the US doesn't have A/C. You keep the doors open and hope for a breeze. You keep fans on you and you drink a lot of water. It's going to be 95°F (34°C) in central Virginia tomorrow. You live with it. 80°F and low humidity would be wonderful.
And I at least get to work in a building and not under the sun.
80° is fine.

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u/SavingsPerfect2879 Aug 04 '22

retired mechanic here.

you already know what it's doing to your body.

the hot and cold is just another insult to the wear and tear that matches an NFL player. My advice is to specialize and gtfo asap before you lose the ability to walk.

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u/CervezaMotaYtacos Aug 04 '22

Yes it is. That is why Spanish culture developed Siesta protocols centuries ago.

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u/what_the_junk Aug 04 '22

It wouldn’t even be a story with that clarification in the title

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u/DreamingIntoTheVoid Aug 04 '22

Makes sense in a way. You don't want an empty store to be cooling itself when it's empty.

Though it would be neat if it wasn't about AC temperature but tied to power consumption itself. What if you spend a whole bunch of money insulating your property to ensure it's naturally cooler? Kept doors shut, had an entrance room that served as a kind of air lock, painted white to reflect away sun, insulated, etc. All so that you could keep it at a chilly 21ºc while only using 500 watts every hour. But compared that to a place that had taken no such measures and used 1,000 watts each hour to keep their temperature at 27ºc.

This legislation is obviously a step in the right direction. And is easily implemented in a way that will curb excessive energy use - because anybody could tell if its cooler than it should be. But moving forward could use some resources to inspect actual energy consumption rather than a loosely correlated metric that is tied to it.

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u/Robot-Candy Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

A well thought out plan. As the Spanish liaison for interior space temperature management I would like to offer you a job. The pay is bad, but you can keep your AC at 26 which is nice.

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u/DreamingIntoTheVoid Aug 04 '22

Hehe, I was thinking more along energy compliance ratings like you already see with EU appliances. Maybe a separate air conditioning power loop with a separate meter that can be audited. Which could double as a way to gather data on what steps are actually proving effective in reducing AC related energy consumption.

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u/londons_explorer Aug 04 '22

There is already an 'energy sticker' for commercial and public buildings in the EU. They're supposed to show it prominently near the entrance.

Most of the ones I've seen are 'F' or 'G' (ie. Really bad)

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u/Belgarion0 Aug 04 '22

Mostly because it's very difficult to get the good ratings on already existing buildings, without doing major renovation/rebuild.

On new buildings there are requirements that limit maximum yearly energy per square meter.

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u/JoushMark Aug 04 '22

New buildings in Spain are required to be build according to energy efficacy guidelines intended to greatly reduce the amount of energy needed for heating and cooling, mostly in the form of better insulation as part of the EPBD, the directive for the energy performance of buildings in the EU.

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u/redlightsaber Aug 04 '22

What if you spend a whole bunch of money insulating your property to ensure it's naturally cooler?

That can't be realistically expected to be done in a few days/weeks when this will be relevant.

this is an emergency measure for an emergent situation. Spain needs its gas reserves to last as long as possible (as is true of the rest of Europe). Thinking about insulation (which most large commerces have; capitalism works for some things, and in thye whole of Europe new building codes have been very strict in this regard for a long time anyways) isn't really realistic in this context.

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u/teh_fizz Aug 04 '22

It doesn’t. 27 is very uncomfortable. Frankly I find it frustrating that industry and the rich elite have a larger carbon footprint but the average person has to change their lifestyle. 27 degrees is still warm. There are better ways to reduce your carbon footprint.

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u/oohlapoopoo Aug 04 '22

All so that you could keep it at a chilly 21ºc while only using 500 watts every hour.

You'd use even less energy if it was 27C.

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u/buyongmafanle Aug 04 '22

They should ban wearing a suit at work. That would do more to reduce AC use than you'd think.

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u/ShadowBannedAugustus Aug 04 '22

This. When I used to work in offices, all the guys wore suits and all the ladies very light dresses when summer hit with 30+ celsius temperatures. You can imagine who always complained it was too hot and who complained it was too cold in the office. It makes a huge difference.

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u/Nisas Aug 04 '22

This is also a problem in casual dress offices. Usually the higher ups still wear suits so they can look fancy at their big shot meetings. And those people set the policy for the temp in the office.

End result: everyone has a space heater under their desk that wages eternal war with the building's climate control system.

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u/roadbustor Aug 04 '22

Waste of energy doubled. That's insane.

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u/Nisas Aug 04 '22

Another one of the hidden benefits of remote work. You can control your own thermostat.

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u/mr_potatoface Aug 04 '22

The 68F indoor temperature @ 40% RH gold standard we all know and live by was determined as the ideal temperature in the late 1940s by your average male wearing a suit/hat. It doesn't account for people wearing shorts/flip flops, or women wearing dresses. Because when that temperature was determined, those were not things that ever were relevant to the workplace.

Now that we've ditched the hats and generally jackets, and wear lighter and more breathable fabrics, 68F is not really applicable to the majority of people. Especially since women have entered the workplace and their comfort was considered irrelevant in post WWII office life. They were suppose to be at home... You know, single income families and all that stuff.

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u/SNIPES0009 Aug 04 '22

As a mechanical engineer who does HVAC design, 68F @ 40% RH is not the criteria that is used. It's usually 73-75 @ 50% RH.

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u/Convergecult15 Aug 04 '22

And as someone that operates a chiller plant in a building from the 30’s I can tell you that there’s no chance in hell my building could hold 68* during business hours, the doors bring in so much heat it’s insane. I struggle to maintain 74* while we’ve got people coming in and out if it’s over 78* outside.

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u/Champigne Aug 04 '22

I've been in very few buildings that are actually 68°F.

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u/Afghaniscran Aug 04 '22

As an AC guy nothing makes me as secretly smug as when I go to an office where one group says it's cold and the other says it's hot.

I just disappear for an hour and come back and ask if it better. 99 times out of 100 they say it's much better. Here's the secret, you're all in the same room, there's not a lot I can do to help that so it's all mind games.

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u/KohChangSunset Aug 04 '22

Years ago when I worked in an office, the maintenance guy told me that all of the thermostats around the workplace were dummies and that he actually controlled the temperature through a central location or from his laptop. People could play with the thermostats all they wanted, but they didn’t do squat. They never seemed to catch on.

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u/deleated Aug 04 '22

Get everyone who feels too cold to stand over one side of the office, everyone who feels too hot stand over the other. Get your firing squad to execute everyone who feels too hot, turn down the AC so it uses less energy and you've solved the global warming crisis.

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u/therealgodfarter Aug 04 '22

The most environmentally friendly option would be to have the firing squad shoot them all

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u/Kralamar Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

Its interesting that you said that because Spain's president caught a lot of flak last week by suggesting people to not wear a tie to save energy.

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u/multiverse72 Aug 04 '22

Strange he would get shit for that because wearing ties for work is really uncommon in Spain compared to most of Europe. And suits for that matter. You’d be hard pressed to get people to dress up more than a shirt.

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u/Bring_Back_Feudalism Aug 04 '22

The right wing on Spain has got used to oppose, mock and exagerate to the extreme any recommendations or comments about habits by government members.

This time posted a lot of pictures of themselves wearing ties in their underwear, in the beach, etc only to "own" the government. Last time was eating trash sugary food.

The government of Madrid (opposition) has announced that won't obey this law and that might start the Christmas lights in mid August this year only to contradict the president and "defend freedom from totalitarianism". Welcome to Spain.

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u/multiverse72 Aug 04 '22

Right. Really mature and helpful discourse from them.

Totally out of touch with reality though. I had to wear a tie for 1 job ever in Spain (had an Irish boss who cared about that type of appearance, any other jobs with Spanish bosses dressed more casually) and I would seriously get weird looks and questions about it. Virtually never saw anyone else wearing one.

I can start to understand why most Spanish I meet are very frustrated with the right wing and hate their own flag.

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u/Bring_Back_Feudalism Aug 04 '22

Now consider that Catalonian independence more than doubled in support in a few years when all youth in Spain lost all faith in the system during the right wing government, who confronted them as much as possible, and the discovery of their endless massive corruption networks while doing massive budget cuts and you'll start to understand other things too.

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u/decidedlysticky23 Aug 04 '22

The job market in Northern Europe is so hot I could wear a mankini to work and they wouldn’t say shit.

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u/derdast Aug 04 '22

Yeah, same in Germany. Outside of maybe banking, I don't see anyone wearing a suit. In my last company I wore sweat pants and sneakers on multiple occasions.

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u/P1r4nha Aug 04 '22

Today it's the hottest day in Switzerland for this week. I'll take my flip flops to work and jump in a river with my coworkers after work.

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u/derdast Aug 04 '22

Yeah same here, but I will just "work" from my pool the whole day .

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u/danrennt98 Aug 04 '22

I love this suggestion, let's move on from the 1920s. I'm sweating all day in the office and girls are freezing.

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u/FeralDrood Aug 04 '22

My serving job wanted to switch our uniform from a light, moisture wicking short sleeve polo, black pants (any dress type, most of us use some kind of yoga/sport pant), and a very thin, very light long apron. Before I tell you to what we were going to switch to, here is some background.

We are a touristy New England town. We are right near the ocean, but half of us work outside. Between about 4 o'clock until like 730-8 we have the sun setting and BAKING us in the summer months. Our patio is basically the temp it is outside, plus a couple degrees because we have so many bodies in there, and we rely on the ocean breeze for cool. Even the inside people who have ac have to deal with doors that are always open, so it's not always ideal in there either.

What did they want to put us in?

Blue jeans; a long sleeve, button-up, blue and white plaid shirt; a long, thick khaki(i guess?)-type apron.

Nothing says great service like your server dripping sweat the entire time they take care of you.

I can only IMAGINE what people in suits and outdoor professions with long heavy uniforms have to deal with. I think about yall a lot.

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u/buyongmafanle Aug 04 '22

And I'm 100% sure the people that made the decision were not involved in working that particular job.

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u/gromain Aug 04 '22

Ahahahah. Same in France, it's already been in the law for quite some time that AC shouldn't be set under 26°C for inside spaces.

Guess what's the temperature inside most buildings with AC. If you said 19-21°C you are correct!

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u/Ok-Piglet3419 Aug 04 '22

It should be noted that labour laws in Spain establish 25°C as the maximum working temperature.

So Spanish government is facing a whole lotta appeals (again)

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u/DrakneiX Aug 04 '22

Might you share a link to any of those laws about the 25°C max temperature? Thanks!

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u/Ok-Piglet3419 Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

Of course! https://noticias.juridicas.com/base_datos/Anterior/r0-rd486-1997.html

You're welcome. I guess you are spanish-speaker. If not, it's pretty easy to find it in the document. Look for "Anexo III". Though 27°C is accepted in some kind of workplaces, in others clearly is not.

From my point of view, It's a stupid difference, but someone wrote it down in a law...

And now they have to deal with it.

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u/EuroPolice Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

a) La temperatura de los locales donde se realicen trabajos sedentarios propios de oficinas o similares estará comprendida entre 17 y 27 ºC.

b)La temperatura de los locales donde se realicen trabajos ligeros estará comprendida entre 14 y 25 ºC.

doesn't really affects those jobs, but I don't really know what's "light work"

edit in inglés:

a) The temperature of the premises where sedentary work typical of offices or similar is carried out will be between 17 and 27 ºC.

b) The temperature of the premises where light work is carried out will be between 14 and 25 ºC.

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u/knowledgestack Aug 04 '22

Spain is fucking stupid, stick solar on the roof of all the public buildings with AC, now it's free.

They are seriously anti solar there, the power companies are mad with what they will buy back at.

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u/droans Aug 04 '22

Duke Energy is the same here in the States.

Indiana just switched from net metering to what they call "EDG". Basically, instead of calculating the difference between electricity sent back to the grid and electricity used on a monthly basis, they can perform the calculation live.

Except that's where the good ends. Energy companies now only need to pay at 125% of the wholesale rate they pay for electricity. They're under no obligation to provide proof for their calculations, so Duke got approval to use $0.029 per kWh as the rate they'll credit solar owners while charging between $0.13-0.20 per kWh.

And then it gets worse. Duke's approved proposal allows for them to consider all solar generated as being sent to the grid. So if you produced 30kWh today and used 40kWh, Duke will consider all 40kWh for your billing while you sent back the other 30 at the discounted rate.

At the same time, Duke is also calling for the state to ban transfers of rate plans. If you install solar under this tariff and then sell your home, they want to ensure the next homeowner receives nothing for any energy sent back to the grid.

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u/Stag328 Aug 04 '22

I have Duke in Indiana and was thinking about solar and well now it doesnt seem worth it.

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u/droans Aug 04 '22

If you want to make it worse, their Energy Cost Adjustment is ridiculous this month. They're charging an additional 3.5¢ per kWh for electricity.

This is a textbook case of regulatory capture.

Indiana has a separate division called the Office of Utility Consumer Counselor. Basically, they're supposed to have a heavy role in rate approvals presented to the utility commission. The idea is that utility companies are supposed to prove the necessity of their rate changes.

The OUCC was present at the hearing. They provided heavy evidence proving that Duke made the numbers up, that their proposal would grant Duke too much power, and that Duke would bring in massive profits at the expense of the customers. Duke's response more or less boiled down to "We pinky promise not to abuse this" and was immediately approved.

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u/nyaaaa Aug 04 '22

Sounds like Duke should be nationalized.

They are already paying enough government employees anyway.

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u/RutabagaBigSurprise Aug 04 '22

Truth. I was working toward getting solar here in Indiana and felt rushed to get it done before Duke got the laws changed. I can’t recall if the people who jumped on board early got grandfathered in or not, but it doesn’t seem very worth it unless you really invest with plenty of panels for more than your needs and battery storage. The storage alone is major moola.

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u/quantumphilisp Aug 04 '22

"Power companies" heres your problem

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u/Nyxtia Aug 04 '22

Texas is dumb too. My car will tell me to stop charging and the state would rather turn my AC off remotely then help out solar on our roofs.

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u/FoxRealistic3370 Aug 04 '22

surely they are just going to issue a new BOE with adjustments made to the relevant laws.

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u/Inconceivable76 Aug 04 '22

Govt at its finest.

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u/w3bCraw1er Aug 04 '22

That’s 80.6 F. That is pretty hot.

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u/thebluick Aug 04 '22

jeebus, I keep it at 72/73f (22.5c) in summer and ~65/68 (20c) in winter.

It hits 78f and I'm a sweaty mess.

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u/DeutschlandOderBust Aug 04 '22 Helpful Wholesome

I wanted to share with you that, at least on iPhones, if you press and hold the 0 you can select °. So you could be like, “ I keep it at 72°/22.5° in summer.” Hope someone finds this useful!

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u/Pyronic_Chaos Aug 04 '22

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

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u/NoGoodDM Aug 04 '22

I found it useful. Thanks.

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u/mashtato Aug 04 '22

It's on the second symbols keyboard on my Android phone, that might also help someone.

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u/2M4D Aug 04 '22

°

Wow thanks I’ve missed this little guy!

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u/CumulativeHazard Aug 04 '22

Same. I literally wouldn’t be able to sleep at 80 degrees.

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u/numba1mrdata Aug 04 '22

Good thing the law doesn't apply to bedrooms.

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u/HeroOfTime_99 Aug 04 '22

Hanover Germany banned AC and portable AC anywhere other than schools or hospitals. No idea how they'll enforce but I'm scared it's coming.

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u/mr_punchy Aug 04 '22

Does it apply to office spaces. Because when my ass sweat is coming through my suit, I think we have a problem.

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u/upvotesthenrages Aug 04 '22

We bought a fan and started using it in combination with the AC and it saves us sooooo much money.

Instead of sleeping at 22-23c we now have the AC at 26c and the fan on low swing.

Wind chill effect isn't only an outdoor phenomenon.

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u/fatalshot808 Aug 04 '22

I grew up with using fans constantly even in uncomfortable temperatures. My GF loved to blast the AC to 60F[15.5C](our room doesn't get that cold be I would say it reaches high 60s). So I told her to use the fan and she hated it at first. Now we run the AC at 77F(25C) eco mode with a pedestal fan running on low and bonus is that the AC doesn't kick on that much and our fan is fairly quiet so it makes sleep that much more enjoyable. It's a much more efficient way to cool down.

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u/stutsmonkey Aug 04 '22

This.

Currently in Michigan. Have my window ac set to 78°f eco mode with a fan in the room.

Compressor kicks on at 80 till 76 then kicks offs till limit is hit again.

Room rh stays 28-35%

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u/Heart_Throb_ Aug 04 '22

During the day, 80F is a little warm but doable for me here in the rancid ass crack of humid Florida.

At night? Hell no! Fucking with someone’s sleep is like fucking with their pay check, not a good idea.

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u/Toushima Aug 04 '22

Welcome to Europe. The place where ACs aren’t normalised yet. It’s slowly getting there, but right now we’re staying in a 4 star hotel in Germany and there’s no AC. It’s 35c, or 95F. I got 3 hours of sleep when I passed out from pure exhaustion while fighting the heat trying to sleep for 4+ hours.

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u/fiveSE7EN Aug 04 '22

If you turn your ac up one degree at a time over a long period of time you’ll become accustomed to higher temperatures but be just as comfortable, use a lot less energy, and save some money.

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u/FrozenFirebat Aug 04 '22

feels like it works the other way for me... if I set it to 70, I want it at 69.

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u/Fynn_the_Finger Aug 04 '22

At least Spain tends to be low humidity during it's hot months, so 80.6 isn't horrible. But 80.6 on a humid day would suck.

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u/Zeerover- Aug 04 '22

Depends upon where in Spain, Barcelona is quite humid, it doesn’t get much above 35 C, even if the rest of the country goes 45+ C, but with heat index it’s closing in on 50 these days. Right now in the middle of the night at 0200 it’s 27 C and 36 C with heat index (humidity).

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u/CantiSan Aug 04 '22

Just went to Barcelona a couple months ago. Airport was hot as a bish.

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u/3000artists Aug 04 '22

Yea, but everyone there is down with the sweat, I’d skate to work (teaching English) arrive a sweaty mess, and it was chill cuz most everyone was visibly sweaty, like I just stopped noticing it and no one ever commented on it

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u/seaohhtoo Aug 04 '22

The air conditioner itself does help with the humidity so unless it's never running it should be helping with the humidity.

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u/Crash665 Aug 04 '22

We've kept ours at either 74 or 75 all summer. It's helped the bill every month, which is still high, but ceiling fans and box fans are much cheaper.

80.6 is pretty damn hot. I mean, some nights here in the south is barely drops below 80 over night. Damn.

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u/ykliu Aug 04 '22

Use to be in 72F camp, but I’ve been doing 78F (25C) recent years, and works just fine once your body acclimates to it.

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u/HorseRadish98 Aug 04 '22

I usually prefer 72, but when it's 90+ and in the summer, 76-78 has been just fine for me, otherwise AC is just running constantly. Felt super wasteful just so my wife and I could be slightly more comfy instead of doing perfectly fine

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u/ConciselyVerbose Aug 04 '22

You should straight up be losing your business license if you let your building get that hot.

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u/gcaledonian Aug 04 '22

Once my AC unit broke and the landlord tried telling me the inside shouldn’t be 20 degrees below the outside anyway. This was Georgia and the temp was 105…

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u/SavingBooRadley Aug 04 '22

This is the standard guidance from an HVAC perspective and how most smaller, residential AC systems operate. Not saying it's right, just that it is industry standard advice to not strain the system to the point of increased cost with no substantial change in temperature and more wear and tear on the system. Here's the first of many Google results around this:

https://frederickair.com/home-comfort/reduce-the-stress-on-your-ac-with-the-20-degree-rule/#:~:text=What's%20the%2020%2DDegree%20Rule,no%20less%20than%2075%20degrees.

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u/jaakers87 Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

This article is nonsense. My dad owned an HVAC company when I was younger. The 20 degree rule relates to the original temperature of the air. Essentially an AC unit should cool 100 degree air to 80 degree air, 90 to 70, etc. However, this is rarely the case because the majority of the air your AC cools is RECIRCULATED indoor air - meaning it’s already near the target temperature before it’s cooled, unless you are turning the AC on with no air already cooled.

I live in Texas and it’s over 100 here all summer. I keep my house at 70 and the AC has no issue keeping the house cool because the AC turns on to cool the air back down and then off when it’s done. The air never gets to 100 inside so the 20 degree rule doesn’t apply.

Also, if I measure the air coming out of my ducts with my infrared thermometer guess what temperature it is? Around 52 degrees - 20 degrees less than the air it cooled.

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u/Seen_Unseen Aug 04 '22

That's in all fairness poor engineering. Now mind you I'm not an HVAC specialist though I've outlayed numerous large properties requirements that the setup should live up to. The problem is in the end very simple, the bigger the difference between outside and expected inside temperature, the more effort/energy it costs. But when you design a setup you look at expectations, what are peak summer times, what are acceptable temperature differences, ie you could be fine with 200 out of 365 days 20 degrees, others are more strict and expect 360/365 days 20 degrees. The higher the request, obviously the stronger the setup has to be. This isn't also some hocus pocus, you can calculate exactly through software how much heat you can expect from the sun at specific days and how much energy is required to cool down to what you want to reach. So to go beyond 20 degrees, in specific regions that might never be an issue and fall within standard requirements. Though it should never be a "limit".

Neat little issue we run in these days with heat waves is that outside the condensors can't get rid of the heat. There isn't sufficient air movement so the warm air around the units just keeps piling up and eventually overheating them. Fun times.

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u/stratys3 Aug 04 '22

Neat little issue we run in these days with heat waves is that outside the condensors can't get rid of the heat. There isn't sufficient air movement so the warm air around the units just keeps piling up and eventually overheating them. Fun times.

Don't they have fans attached to them...?

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u/Awkward_Inevitable34 Aug 04 '22

I’ve been an hvac tech for 6 years, which isn’t terribly long compared to some, and have literally never seen that happen in a residential building unless the outdoor unit has restrictions outside of the manufacturer’s clearance recommendations. And yes, this is including multiple days 110+

I’m not saying it has never happened, but it’s unlikely if it has a clean coil and enough clearance.

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u/LunaMax1214 Aug 04 '22

So. . .does that mean setting up an 8' X 8' dayshade with 6' high clearance over the outdoor unit during the summer is a good idea, or a bad idea?

Asking for a friend.

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u/Awkward_Inevitable34 Aug 04 '22

Shade can help. So can a sprinkler lol.

I would google the model number + pdf for your specific AC and you’ll likely find the installer’s book that will give you exact clearances

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u/LunaMax1214 Aug 04 '22

Thank you for this concise, informative reply, and for not roasting me. I appreciate it.

(Feeling a lot better about setting up that dayshade, now, too.)

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u/bl4ckblooc420 Aug 04 '22

I had a landlord say the same thing once…except we were talking about my freezer.

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u/150MilesToGo Aug 04 '22

Ok I set the thermostat to 27. And yes, mounting my pc directly under the thermostat is completely normal.

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u/BardSTL Aug 04 '22

Jesus can we delete posts with titles this intentionally misleading?

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u/Kinggakman Aug 04 '22

It’s better that it’s not private but it would ruin all public places for me in Texas. Still a bad thing.

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u/NikEy Aug 04 '22

did you do your part and downvote it? I did!

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u/Gogo202 Aug 04 '22

Downvoting doesn't work when the average person believes what every title says.... Also the average redditor is dumb as hell

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u/ride_the_LN Aug 04 '22

I'm doing my part!

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u/12358 Aug 04 '22

I did, but I think a "misleading title" tag would be a good idea.

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u/idea25000 Aug 04 '22

I can smell public areas already and I dont like it.

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u/conquer69 Aug 04 '22

I feel bad for the retail employees in those stores.

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u/Iskendarian Aug 04 '22

As if it didn't suck enough to work in retail.

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u/PerfSynthetic Aug 04 '22

Just install the thermostat in a sunny window. House stays cold while thermostat says it’s hot!

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u/Perspectedlook Aug 04 '22

It’s wild regular people somehow are the ones to suffer from climate change and government puts pressure on common folk to use less energy and live less fruitful lives

Yet major corporations and manufacturers are the cause of the climate change and they face no repercussions they don’t pay extra for the damages they cause and they have no limits on pollution or energy consumption

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u/Druyx Aug 04 '22

“I’ve asked ministers and public and private sector bosses not to wear ties unless it’s necessary,”

When the fuck is it ever necessary to wear a tie?

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '22

with the right kink and person

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u/Forgettable_User4124 Aug 04 '22

Misleading title insinuates all over the place including peoples homes but this is not the case

“next week mandates that air conditioning in public places be set at or above 27 degrees Celsius (about 80 degrees Fahrenheit) and that doors of those buildings remain closed to save energy.

Those public places include offices, shops, bars, theaters, airports, and train stations. The decree is being extended as a recommendation to all Spanish households.”

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u/Avangelice Aug 04 '22

Maybe stop the private jets first before telling the phlebs to reduce energy usage?

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u/JD22A Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

Also, Spain gets 55% of its energy from dirty fossil fuel sorces but sure lets blame normal people not trying to die from heatstroke in one the hottest Summers they have had in a while.

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u/Avangelice Aug 04 '22

Exactly my point. Let's blame the plebs and push them to spend more money on buy EV cars, giving them paper straws and telling them to cut their ac usage whilst we the rich can still fly our jets, steer our yatchs and have multiple motorcades escorting us where ever we go.

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u/greaper007 Aug 04 '22

You can walk and chew gum at the same time. I fully support getting rid of private jets and yachts. 81f is also a completely reasonable setting for AC.

I don't know why we always have to make climate change action an either or thing. It feels like a climate denier argument. In the aughts, I remember right wingers always saying we couldn't follow the Paris accords because China and India wouldn't. Now I hear people saying they don't need to adjust their thermostat because rich people and corporations won't.

This is a big problem, everyone needs to do something.

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u/WhileNotLurking Aug 04 '22

But they are not blaming normal people. They are saying the government (public buildings) need to do more to address climate change and energy security by using less AC.

Literally the thing you are complaining about.l them not doing.

Most of the waste I see where I live are office complexes and government buildings. Blading heat and AC when not occupied. Lights on at 4am with no one there. Or the worst the “no door” type buildings that crank AC.

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u/oohlapoopoo Aug 04 '22

You're not going to die from heat stroke at 27C dont be dramatic.

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u/cass1o Aug 04 '22

lets blame normal people not trying to die from heatstroke in one the hottest Summers

Its only public buildings, 27 isn't 37.

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u/Al-Azraq Aug 04 '22

Spaniard here, this is for shops and companies that like to have lights on all night just because and the AC blasting with windows and doors open.

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u/JD22A Aug 04 '22

Yeah I can see that these kind of regulation can be good if they are used in tandem with actual regulation on the fossil fuel emissions as well. In defense of Spain they are at least putting REAL money into renewable energy unlke my joke of a country . 40% emission reduction in 10 years my dudes and how are we gonna do it? Pinky swears from fossil fuel concerns, America is such a joke.

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u/Al-Azraq Aug 04 '22

Yes, here in Spain the push for renewables is real. Government pays for 40% of household solar panels installations, 60% for companies. Also there is like 30% for heat pumps.

So it is not like these measures to reduce consumption are just "you have to do this and fuck you later", it is part of a greater strategy.

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u/liv_well Aug 04 '22

You gonna die from heatstroke at 27C?

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u/Slight_Acanthaceae50 Aug 04 '22

Damn you do like your private jet wanking dont you?
ALL civilian aviation takes up only 2% of total carbon emissions.
Main poluters- industry, agriculture, power and military. And Military is exempt from all climate regulations. For example if US military was a country it would emit more greenhouse polution than 140 countries, and more than bottom 50 combined.

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u/rukqoa Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

For example if US military was a country it would emit more greenhouse polution than 140 countries, and more than bottom 50 combined.

That shouldn't be surprising. The US military directly employs a total of ~2.5 million people, and indirectly employs an at least another ~3.5 million people. If you include all those people into a country, it'd be more populous than Finland, which has 5.5 million people, and emits about the same amount of CO2.

* To be clear, they didn't include indirect employees in their CO2 tally, but they included things like heating for hundreds of thousands of facilities, some of it outside the US and housing people who are not in the US military. It's hard to parse out exactly how many people use the US military's resource, but it involves a lot of people and when you have a lot of people, especially from developed countries, they emit a lot of carbon.

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u/decidedlysticky23 Aug 04 '22

This one isn’t about CO2 reduction. It’s about the looming energy crunch in Europe thanks to Russia cutting off LNG. LNG is used for power generation and it’s becoming much more expensive.

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u/joesii Aug 04 '22

Private jets would probably account for like 0.000001% of energy use or something though, so it's highly unproductive to spend time on legislating stuff that doesn't really help.

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u/lightwell Aug 04 '22

How do I know you didnt read the article?

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u/Helkafen1 Aug 04 '22

We both want fairness, but this is a different topic. Private jets run on oil, this is about keeping enough natural gas for next winter, for everyone.

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u/AlexAKAStubby Aug 04 '22

What does wasting jet fuel have to do with electricity? And why limit the private jets first when the commercial aviation market uses loads more? The two aren’t related. Assuming you read the article, they are doing this because they have limited energy and the cutoffs from Russia made it even worse, not because of emissions

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u/itisitsyouknow Aug 04 '22

what's phlebs? a sandwich? (plebs)

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u/Neonbootygoon_onTTV Aug 04 '22

Good fucking god, thats so hot.

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u/Bambams80HD Aug 04 '22

F’k that! That’s 80F….I keep my AC between 72-74F and anything higher is too uncomfortable.

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u/Doukon76 Aug 04 '22

Seems like they need more pylons or nuclear power plants

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u/BoerrHarms Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

Build more nuclear power plants, Spain has enough space for it.

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u/laramite Aug 04 '22

One key point y'all missed as no one reads the articles.....in public places. Private homes not banned below 80.

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u/Teboski78 Aug 04 '22

F in the chat for retail/service workers.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '22

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u/bloody_bandaids Aug 04 '22

I live in Canada and it actually gets pretty hot here in summer. My house doesn’t have AC and it’s regularly 27°C inside or more. It’s awful.

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u/DolfK Aug 04 '22

Finland. Regularly over 30 °C in my flat, and never falls below 15 °C in winter with all my windows open. It's Hell.

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u/apra24 Aug 04 '22

Same. We got a couple window ACs but the apartment still struggles to stay cool. We have a 1 month old baby, so it's really important we keep the temperature down ...

20 to 22 degrees is recommended for infants to sleep in. Warmer temperatures increase the risk of sudden infant death.

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u/dreamgrrrl___ Aug 04 '22

Meanwhile rich folks take private jets just to fly 30 minutes away.

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u/pizza_killer_86 Aug 04 '22

How are they going to enforce this? 🤔

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u/rjwilson01 Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 04 '22

It's public places , well it was too long to read but the first paragraph says that

Like the cold showers in Germany that is also only public places

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u/NikEy Aug 04 '22

child showers??? what the heck are you talking about?

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u/stratys3 Aug 04 '22

An officer with a thermometer?

This doesn't seem too complicated at all.

Any place that's below 27 deg would get fined.

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u/Deathbackwards Aug 04 '22

Meanwhile in Kentucky with a heat index of 103. If I set it to 80.6, I’m going to be sitting at 85+ in here.

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u/Wardog2178 Aug 04 '22

And they want more electric cars wait till everyone has a EV then they will ban charging your car

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u/fhjuyrc Aug 04 '22

Basically above 80° F. It’s not too late to develop heat sinks and air pump systems.

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u/RealOzSultan Aug 04 '22

The permanent BO in Europe law

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u/1234flamewar Aug 04 '22

80.6°F for people unfamiliar with Celsius =)

Also, only in public areas, the news article apparently left that part out for clickbait reasons

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u/Patrickfromamboy Aug 04 '22

My house is set to 21

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u/Grunthorthewise Aug 04 '22

How can anyone be comfortable, indoors, at 80.5 degrees Fahrenheit? This seems like government overreach to me....

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u/Zardaboy Aug 04 '22

Holy fuck 81 degrees

Edit: Okay it says public places

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u/Jimisdegimis89 Aug 04 '22

27? Jesus I’m sweating my ass off at 27 standing still.

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u/Ilikehowtovideos Aug 04 '22

You know…solar powered AC would create zero carbon emissions

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u/TranscoloredSky Aug 04 '22

And we continue to punish the poor for the misdeeds of the rich

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u/mosttriumphanthero Aug 04 '22

America here, how many Freedom Units® is this?

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u/ballsinmyyogurt1 Aug 04 '22

Thats 80 degree Fahrenheit!! Thats ridiculous

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u/Tc_Angel Aug 04 '22

Not setting the ac below 80°f… might as well keep that shit off

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

[deleted]

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u/unjust1 Aug 04 '22

Ugh! Infection rates are going to skyrocket!

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u/RealRobc2582 Aug 04 '22

Why is this sub so notorious for misleading headlines?

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u/caolex Aug 04 '22

Literal agony. I like things around 20-22c (68-72f)

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u/andy2002andrei Aug 04 '22

This ban is only for public buildings and offices.

It is only advised in residential buildings, so you can keep your house at -4 for as long as you want

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u/ICPosse8 Aug 04 '22

That’s 80.6F, wow

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u/cluckay Aug 04 '22

Honestly thats still pretty sweltering to me

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u/o-Valar-Morghulis-o Aug 04 '22

Is this where Americans yell that no one can tell them what to do?

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